Getting rid of paint smell
Today’s question comes from Aaren. Aaren asks:
Hi hope you can help! My daughter’s room will not stop smelling. In fact, I challenged Olympic Paint and Lowe’s – going back and forth until we settled. KILZ and another coat of paint reproduced the original smell! Olympic even paid a professional to do all that work for us. The second coat of Premium One water based latex interior paint still smells. We have 2 air purifiers and had our windows opens for a week while painting and for 12 days afterward. …. As of today however we are dealing with a smell from Friday. It’s awful and I’m afraid to let my daughter sleep in there (although she has for two nights). WHAT can I do to make it go away. The room seems like it’s cursed. No other room in our house ever smelled like this… Please help with ideas of what to do. How long is this supposed to last. The smell is like a sweet, clay smell. It doesn’t really smell like paint at all. We even crawled into the attic to check for smell and it wasn’t present. We tried sprays, onions, vinegar, steam cleaning. Everything. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Aaren
To be honest I personally have never experienced prolonged smelling after painting a room. Usually something like that might happen if there is excessive moisture which makes the paint dry slower and may contribute to the paint smelling. To try to get rid of the smell I would put a container with some coffee in it. If it doesn’t remove the smell at least will enhance the air a bit.
Brenda
My suggestion for everyone when redecorating, wallpaper or paneling. I want to tear out the walls and put up the prefixed beadboard paneling. But can’t convince my husband to tear out the walls a second time. ?
Kane
Brenda, older posts had a person applying several coats of safe coat and it didn’t work out. Also complaints of making the surface very shiny and bubbly. Did you have that as well?
Michelle
We took out half the drywall yesterday. It sat outside over night in trash cans about 10 ft from the front door. I opened the front door this morning and could smell it. Later I went out through another door and gave it a sniff. This will come as no surprise to anyone here but you could smell the paint even outdoors. I then smelled some of the wood trim that we took off and no odor at all but that is painted with cabinet coat. I also smelled the back of the drywall and no odor.
To get the rest of it we have to pull the vanity, pull the toilet and take down the tile. Were planning to take down all the painted surfaces and then see if there is any residual paint smell in the ceiling.
All because I thought it would be fun to try a new color . For those just tuning in this was just over a year ago that we put up the paint so it had plenty of time to cure.
Not sure when we will get it replaced as I don’t currently have anyone lined up.
I had to debate between suffering with the smell of trying to encapsulate it with 15 or 20 coats of something (which seems like those with success have done so many different coats of different things it would be hard to replicate) and suffering with tear out, expense and the smell of new drywall, mud, primer and eventually paint. I decided to suffer the latter.
Michelle
Brenda,
I would love to hear if your smell is dissipating. I am hoping it is just the fresh drywall mud curing and such. Otherwise I’m heck of nervous about putting in new stuff. Our walls and drywall were in such good shape! It was a crying shame to remove them because of this problem. I am going to keep a piece of drywall in a Ziploc in the garage just in case there is ever a class action on this.
Brenda
Michelle, our 2nd try of painting the new drywall was disastrous. The new drywall and mud were fine not odorous at all. And our ceiling, molding and closet which we didn’t paint the first time did not hold the smell at all. But once we repainted the new walls it smelled again, different than the first time, not gas like but sour vinegar.
So far my husband put on 5 coats of the AFM Safecoat which I didn’t want to do as I know no one had luck with it but my husband is the most stubborn person you can meet and when he wants to do something no stopping him. So it helped change the smell not as strong but still there. Then he put two coats of the water base Zinnser. It still smells but he says he can’t smell anything. My girlfriends smell it but the guys can’t. You wanna talk frustrating!!!
He plans on moving back into the room. I won’t! It’s been awful dealing with this, so many arguments. I’m tired. We had such a perfect life before this. I just pray it doesn’t affect our health but I can’t imagine my husband not getting sick after sleeping in there. ?
Michelle
Brenda,
I am so sorry to hear that. I was hoping that the materials were just curing and the odor would go away.
I reread the entire thread looking for safe paints.
Has anyone had a bad experience or gotten a smell with Air Pure paint? It seems like that was one that some put on after redoing the drywall.
Anita
Michelle so glad you took the drywall down instead of trying to put more toxic chemicals on top of the dangerous paint chemicals. Pam and James where do you all live?
Anita
William where do you live?
Michelle
I can definitively say that baking never would have worked. We just got a packaged delivered. The drywall was out in the sun. The high was 90 degrees in the shade and the drywall was in the sun. I just sniffed it on my way back inside and the chemical odor was still there.
James
I baked my problem room to no avail. It just made it smell worse for a day or two and then improved to what it was before. Argh
Michelle
I just ordered the ECOS color fan deck. I also sent them an inquiry for the best paint for me to use in my bathroom that I use to bath the dogs so it has to do well with water being sprayed on it when they shake. Based on their product descriptions I’m thinking the wall primer (for the new drywall) and the nursery paint for the walls.
If anyone has used ECOS paint please respond back your impressions of it.
I was kind of impressed with all their products. The grout on our floor is overdue for sealing because I have never done it due to the toxic smell in sealants. They appear to have a no odor stone sealer I can use. I have also never installed hardwood floors (hence the tile) because I do not want to refinish them with the associated toxic smell. They also had wood finish sealer and stain. Maybe I can have this used if I refinish my cabinets or have any wood work installed.
Maybe if their products don’t have this problem I won’t be stuck with my current colors for the rest of my life.
Michelle
When I originally painted I first tried Behr zero VOC. When I opened the paint can it stunk quite a bit for zero VOC paint but I put it up anyways. However I did not like the color so I stopped using it, mixed it with cat litter and put it aside for the trash. The next color I tried was Olympic Icon. It had virtually no smell and I liked the color so I completed the bathroom with it. So I’ve always wondered was it the Behr or the Olympic? People on here have had problems with both. Today I think I have my answer.
I go into the bathroom that is half gutted to get something and I barely smell the paint smell. It is not the overwhelmingly strong odor that it was before. So I’m thinking that the blank walls in the bathroom are where I started with the Behr before abandoning it and switching. I am so tempted to just stop here and put up new drywall and paint the whole thing with ECOS. However I know myself. I likely tried the Behr on several walls in small patches to test the color. As a result I’m left to conclude I need to continue removing drywall and tile. But I am amazed at the difference in smell with just taking out the blank areas of drywall (walls where there is no sink, light fixture, shower or toilet). I can only imagine what it would have been if I had used the stinky paint everywhere. It was like walking into a wall of fumes whenever we opened the door and it is likely I only painted the one wall with it along with a few test patches on other walls.
Anita
Michelle here is yet another post, from another site, from another consumer sickened by BEHR PAINT. BEHR and HOME DEPOT should both be criminally charged for ruining the homes, health and lives of people for years. Behr Feb 10, 2015: After using Behr ceiling paint and flat latex paint for walls I am unable to enter room even after 2 months my eyes water continously i have never had this problem with any other paint before. Behr paint should have a poison symbol on cans it is unsafe product DO NOT danger your childrens lives dont use this paint
LYNN
Anita and everyone…thanks so much for sharing…am sure helpful to many.
Given the specifics of symptoms, the horrific odors, etc., i was wondering if anyone has zeroed in on the actual source of the smells, etc… I realize it’s often hard to tell if it is the paint, for example, or something else in the home or another substance that was used, but has anyone out there tested to see what the toxicity is causing the odors, air, etc. that makes homes unlivable such as in one of my rooms…these things can be tested…certainly the air can for formaldahyde and a good environmental person can usually nail it or steer you as to what the best testing would be and where in room to have it done whether paint, stucco, drywall material, fungus, chemicals of all sorts or defective material which is deteriorating..
It might save money and the sweat and stress, the horror of what some of what you are going through which makes me and i’m sure so many others wish we could help in some way…as is now, we can share via this site…
Testing would help to know if there is any danger in family spending time in rooms or sleeping in them as could be toxicity and dangerous. I’ve much admiration for the courage in everyone’s sleuthing this by noses, as we all have had to do…but the only way to know if what we are actually doing is going to correct an unknown is to know or at least get some outside help in finding out what exactly we are dealing with, what scientifically is either hazardous or breaking down in order to remove and correct it without it reoccuring or remaining to begin with….this important info can be shared here and the also the info sent to agencies and the law, etc. or used with stores like Home Depot or in making a claim with evidence in small claims court…then there’s a class action law suit possibility down the line. However, the main focus is making our homes habitable again and safe, and so far most have done it by trial and error and suggestions on the site, all of which have been helpful i know, but a stab in the dark largely as so much does not work through no fault of anyone here.
All of which you and some others have either mentioned or alluded to before.. Could we map out a type of plan people can follow with choices so that they can cherry pick the best plan for them…choosing to not do that is an option i would totally respect as well knowing how stressful all this is…but there are so many great thinking minds out there with solutions re fixing it through trial and error…why not apply it to other areas..
this is not a critique as you’re all aware of this and have touched upon it…just meant as a focusing suggestion on another aspect…meaning for example as in my case, what’s in all the damn stuff anyway and what exactly am i and my body and my family dealing with anyway…what exactly are they getting away with and leaving me stuck selling me substandard products that may be hazardous…so little works that everyone has tried…one possible reason is that nobody seems to know what exactly they need to get rid of which makes it almost impossible to apply the right neutralizer, or know whether to tear it down and begin again, and when they want to begin again, what they can safely use or whether the problem substance has either contaminated other parts of the room or is the type which can linger or proliferate with spores even when supposedly removed.
Just a thought…feel so badly for all you’re going through…we’ve all been through so much and are still going through it because of what they are getting away with…so far….
Anita
Erin Brockovich came to Horsham, PA with a legal team 2 weeks ago to help residents with their water contamination. The State announced yesterday it is now going to provide $10 million dollars to help with the cleanup. Erin has a website where you can send an email. I did. It might help.
WilliamE3
Lynn – We need strong organizing, and some funding to do research, to find an answer. While most of us are preoccupied with looking for solutions. There seem to be 2 theories: bad chemistry, and microbiological contamination. My gut feeling, is that most issues are chemical in nature. However, I just came across an ad for a new paint that might offer a potential solution for the bacterial contamination theory.
In the July 2016 edition of Healthcare Purchasing News:
“PAINT SHIELD interior latex eg-shell MICROBICIDAL paint from Sherwin-Williams.” This is intended for use in healthcare facilities, including hospitals, to help reduce the threat of hospital acquired infections. The ad says “The latest tool in your fight against infectious bacteria.”
The ad reads: “The first EPA-registered microbicidal paint that kills greater than 99.9% of staph aureus, MRSA, E. coli, VRE, and Enterobacter aerogenes within two hours of exposure on a painted surface. And it continues to kill these disease causing bacteria for up to four years when the integrity of the surface is maintained.” It gives a website swpaintshield.com.
I haven’t the faintest idea of if it works, or how it works. It could possibly have triclosan in it, which is in some toothpastes and other consumer products. Keep in mind EPA registration is no proof that it does anything: just that the EPA knows it exists. Likely it costs a pretty penny. And as Kane suggests: try it in a small area first.
WilliamE3
PART I
I bought a place a year ago. On the first tour, it smelled of fresh paint. Two weeks later it still smelled of paint. When I closed on it, it still smelled like fresh paint. It still smells.
For many reasons the seller was a scoundrel, and did everything possible to cut his own costs. According to my lawyer, some things he did were borderline illegal, some just bad behavior. One of the legal things he did was buying the cheapest possible paint available on the market: according to a recent conversation with a contractor.
Of the paint cans that were left on the property: Duron Builders Masterpiece.
Stay away from “builders grade” anything!
A month later I moved in. Four days later I was in my doctors office diagnosed with asthma. It was no longer fresh paint smell. It was a profound chemical, slightly sweet, strongly pungent smell, so overwhelming that I couldn’t eat in the kitchen. I didn’t know where was coming from.
I got the best carpet steam cleaner in the area. He worked with the windows wide open so the wet carpet would dry. No smell for a day. But after the windows were closed and an additional 24 hours, the intense chemical smell fully returned.
I definitively isolated it as the semi-gloss paint. It was on all the trim, casings, baseboards, all doors, and the bathroom and kitchen walls. When I left on business for a week, all my asthma symptoms cleared up, and return to soon as I got home. That was repeatable, 3 times.
It cost me $8,000, but I replaced every single piece of casing, molding, baseboard, and trim and replace them with fresh pieces. I replaced every door. I had the bathrooms and the kitchen coated with three layers of BIN Primer shellac base Ultimate stain blocker and a final coat of Harmony Sherwin-Williams paint. My contractor was fantastic: where he couldn’t remove the runner board from the stairs, he sanded it down to the wood, and then painted. I moved back in and my asthma was gone for good.
However, over the next few weeks and especially towards the summer a significant, different, musty smell returned. It was intermittent at first, and then became almost a full-time. My asthma has not returned, but lung irritation is noticeable.
With the exception of a few short episodes when I was a child, I’ve never had asthma, never had chemical sensitivity.
Additionally, the new doors smelled. A different smell. This was just before the laminate flooring problem with Lumber Liquidators was breaking news (see 60 minutes). I went to Home Depot and discovered that the solid wood doors had no smell, but the pressed particle-board doors had a strong chemical smell like formaldehyde.
So now I have two smells, from different sources.
WilliamE3
PART II
The horrible sweet chemical smell associated with semi gloss paint has never returned. Nor has my asthma. I’ve had all the doors removed and I’m now coating them with Kilz Max odor and stain blocker, two coats, that will be followed by a semi gloss. It seems partly effective so far, but not completely. I will have them re-installed, but if the smell persists I will replace them with solid wood doors at a cost of over $4,000.
About the musty smell on the walls: I often wake up in the morning with a chemical taste in my mouth, and weird phlegm in my throat. When I cough it up onto a piece of black cloth it looks inappropriately white – like the flat paint on my walls. When I go away for business for a week, there is no taste and only clear phlegm in the morning. (Sorry for the details.)
A visitor accidentally scuffed the wall recently. I took a Mr. Clean Magic Eraser pad (melamine sponge) and quickly and unintentionally took off the entire outer layer of paint. Unbelievable!!! I have a video I would love to post. The water that comes out of the sponge when I squeeze it is like milk: not skim milk, but whole milk.
A contractor visited last week and confirmed that the new, musty, intermittent smell is the flat paint on the walls. (Several friends had already confirmed it for me.) He said that he used to do quick, cheap, apartment turnovers, and was often told to use the Builders Masterpiece paint. He said he was commonly nauseous by the end of a paint job using that paint. You can’t find anything cheaper than $11 a gallon.
It’s probably not as bad as what some of you are experiencing, and not as bad as the semi-gloss that i started with, but it is a lung irritant and a nuisance,and it is throughout my place. He suggests a strong primer and two coats of high quality paint for the outer coat. I will go with no less than two layers of primer/ordor blocker.
No plan on removing drywall yet.
Note: after using two coats of shellac and one coat of harmony in the bathroom walls, over the stinky semi-gloss, there was some paint cracking. I think allowing adequate drying time is critical.
Brenda
I haven’t posted in a while but am still living in limbo not being able to get rid of the paint smell in my bedroom. Put 5 coats of Safecoat and 2 of Zinsser BIN primer. Made the smell seem like it was going away but after a few days it’s back. Doesn’t smell too strong when air is on but on windy days it seems much worse.
Has anyone tried paneling or wallpaper over bad paint smell?
I still can’t convince my husband to tear out walls again. This is round two of getting bad paint. It’s been Hellen dealing with this and slowly killing my marriage. ??
Kane
Brenda, sorry to read you’re still having issues. Previous posts show that neither Safecoat nor BIN worked for getting rid of the smell/offgassing. The normal smell of fresh paint, sealers, primers in the air will over power the continued offgassing of the bad paint during the first few days. That is what I concluded after others’ and my own experience. Wind just blows the gas around that’s already present in the room. Wallpaper or paneling will not fix the problem because gas will take the path of least resistance and go thru the permeable paper or any openings any kind of paneling.
Seems like Kilz Oil, Kilz Max, or replacing drywall are the only documented fixes here.
Kane
WilliamE3, seems like builders paint is only good to use for new construction (fresh drywall, mud) and not for previously painted surfaces. Builders I have spoken to say that it is assumed that new occupants will ALWAYS paint the walls if not immediately then a couple of years after. The builders paint is just to give a fresh look and not meant to hold up long term. Also it is not meant to paint over previously painted surfaces.
The flat paint that was easily removed by scuff…perhaps you can try to safely scuff off more and try repainting in a small area to see if that helps. Like behind furniture or somewhere not noticeable. As far as doors, I noticed that after my own paint fume issue all the Ikea fiberboard quickly absorbed the odors. Doors (hollow core) that previously had no odor had seemed to absorb some of the odor as well so unless you get rid of the source then $4000 solid wood doors may absorb the odor as well. Lumber yards do sell better quality doors than Home Depot or Lowe’s and you can ask for formaldehyde free ones.
Michelle
I’m not sure that any encapsulation method was showing success. Those who declared success after 15 or 20 coats of various things seemed to then sell their houses so I don’t know if we have long term reports of success other than replacing the drywall.
Brenda
You are right Michelle, no one really has had any long term solutions other than getting rid of the walls. I didn’t want to bother trying to cover the paint I just want the walls gone again. But I have to deal with a very stubborn husband who insisted trying it and now he says he can’t smell anything. We have had many arguments about it so I give up and will give in to him moving back in the bedroom but I won’t ever sleep in there as long as the paint is in that room. I can even smell it when sitting outside under the bedroom window.
What I expect will happen is he will get sick and then believe me. It stresses me out too much to think about it anymore. I’ve convinced him to at least wait until after vacation. ?
Michelle is everyone on the Facebook page, I think it was Brandie that created it? I went on it once but realized it was public and didn’t want to be public on FB so I unjoined.
Michelle
Hi Brenda,
So sorry to hear it hasn’t cleared. I went into my partially demolished bathroom this morning to run the plumbing and there was no odor. I had first put up Behr zero VOC but didn’t like the color or the smell so thew it out and continued with another brand. Were still going to pull all the drywall but I am amazed at how strong the smell was coming from the one wall I had done in that stinky paint.
There appear to be two permanent fixes documented here. Get rid of the drywall or sell the house. I did see one post on another forum for someone who had bought a house with this problem in the bathroom and was driving themselves crazy trying to find it.
William, so sorry to hear about your house. Having it in the whole house must be a nightmare. When I first joined the thread I was appalled that the fix appeared to be removing the drywall. Were in the process of that now. Have removed the easy to get to stuff in our bathroom which appears to be the wall I painted Behr zero VOC. The problem is I know myself and I likely test painted patches of the color on the other walls so were going to take it all out along with the tile. I’d rather be 100% sure it is gone than running in their to sniff it and see if it was coming out of the drywall I left. I’m currently planning to prime and paint with ECOS.
IF ANYONE HAS HAD A PROBLEM WITH ECOS, PLEASE POST IT NOW SO I CAN AVOID WHAT HAPPENED TO BRENDA WITH A SECOND BAD PAINT.
Brenda
Hi Michelle,
I wish I was in process of demolition. It’s a nightmare but at least there is an end to it! It amazes me at how we all have to suffer and there is no help out there other than finding each other dealing with with nightmare online. I think I would have lost my mind not knowing what the hell was causing the smell.
You are brave to repaint. I will be interested how it all pans out for you, keep us posted and good luck.
I wish more people that were previously on this blog would let us know how they solved their paint problems!
Kane
Michelle wrote “There appear to be two permanent fixes documented here. Get rid of the drywall or sell the house.”
Brenda wrote “You are right Michelle, no one really has had any long term solutions other than getting rid of the walls.”
Ladies, let’s not forget that Brandie and Miss V found long term solutions that did not involve getting rid of walls. Brandie used sanded then used Kilz Oil and Miss V used Kilz Max in her rental so she couldn’t have sold her house. We should thank them again for coming back here to post their solutions as it seems many folks have found solutions and not return to share it.
Brenda
I still don’t understand how you sand drywall, and I have a large bedroom, seems daunting. Also how long ago did they put on the 20 coats? Is it still working? I haven’t seen them on here in a while with any updates.
Kane
Brenda, you may want to go back and read what MissV wrote on June 21,2016. She started having problems April 2015 and resolved October 2015.
Miss V
I still get updates from this thread, and I read them all. I resolved my problem in my rental back in October, and still have no issues.
Lisa
Is it realistic to expect a consumer to apply 20 coats of paint to a wall in order to mask the smell coming from the first coat?
Is it realistic to say that a problem that’s been known to come and go in relationship to heat and humidity is “solved” because by June there was no smell?
Here are my answers:
No. It’s not reasonable to expect someone to apply 20 coats of paint EVER. In fact, the chances are far greater that you’re going to cause a bigger problem. It takes a while for paint to “cure”. It will continue to off-gas even after you can’t smell it anymore, so covering paint repeatedly in a short time is likely to increase the off-gassing time again and again. Also, who can physically put themselves through such an ordeal? Not me. And what is the cost compared to replacing drywall? It cost us over $800 for four coats of BIN over and a new topcoat over the course of 10 months – and we still had a problem. Compare that to $2000 to replace the drywall and prime and paint – in a matter of three weeks. Surely time is a factor of cost.
No. It’s not realistic to say that if the smell you believe you’ve conquered in October hasn’t returned by June, you’re in the clear. We painted in October, the smell appeared but then nearly completely disappeared through the winter. It reappeared once the heat was upon us the next year. We never began priming until one whole year after the bad paint was put on the walls – so if time was going to heal the smell it had a year to do so. The smell then did not re-appear until July of the next summer. But it definitely re-appeared.
If the paint companies want us to try masonry primer, they need to recommend that. I never tried Kilz because all the painters’ sites said that BIN was superior for masking odors. I maintain that the biggest problem we face in dealing with this issue is that the paint companies refuse to recognize what’s happening.
If you’re dealing with a paint that was bad in the can, it may have one type of problem that might be solved in a certain way. If you’re dealing with a smell that developed after the paint was applied, it may be a completely different problem that needs a different solution. If there are solutions besides removing the drywall, the paint companies themselves need to be recommending them – because otherwise they can continue to claim that the problem doesn’t exist. They know it exists.
Please, if anyone experienced the development of an odor after applying a low VOC paint, especially Olympic, and tried priming over it to no avail, please e-mail me at: m l e m a 4 5 @ g m a i l. c o m (no spaces)
I would like to have narratives from those who have experienced this first hand: priming over the bad paint and having the smell come back.
Thank you all so much!
Miss V
Yes, I did apply about 20 coats between April and October. There were about 3 attempts to fix the problem, in all. I waited weeks – if not months, between my attempts to fix the problem… I didn’t just slap 20 coats of paint on the walls back to back..
I think the problem for me during those months was that I didn’t allow enough dry time between the coats, ESPECIALLY between the Kilz Max primer coats and the top coats. My first attempts to fix the problem, I only waited as long as was recommended by the manufacturers (on the cans). The Kilz says you can recoat in 4 hours, and so on. I was doing that… In the end, I realized that (after emailing Kilz with questions) that I needed to give the Kilz time to actually absorb/block the odors – before applying the top coats. I did several coats of Kilz over a few weeks time, if I remember correctly. Then I waited a few weeks after the last coat before applying a top coat of color. Then, all I smelled was the Kilz still coming through the latex paint. I had to apply a half dozen coats to finally get the Kilz smell out (which I read from a contractor’s comments to someone else is the only way to get rid of the Kilz smell), but am I complaining about having to do so much physical labor in my own (rental) home? Absolutely not. Why? Because I’d rather have busted my butt fixing the problem in 6 months time, than spending 2+years not being able to use my bedroom.
***Note: I originally thought the paint was bad, which is what started my problem. It may not have been the paint at all – maybe just a reaction of the paint on the wall, because the smell was gone after the first attempt by a painter I hired to fix it with one coat of Bin and one topcoat. HOWEVER, after that painter left my house, that’s when I had a horrible CHEMICAL smell. Thought I was going to die if I breathed it in. It hurt my throat to be in the room. I didn’t want to hire anyone else to try to fix it, since hiring him had made it worse… BUT, after all of my attempts, I think the MAIN PROBLEM after the painter had left was only that I needed more topcoats to cover the Bin. I maybe could have avoided 6 months of sleeping downstairs. Who knows. This is just speculation.
I know EVERY person with this problem has a different situation – different rooms they have painted, different brands of paint used, different environments and climates, etc. There can be a number of reasons why we all have had this problem… I just hope that everyone can find a solution, aside from tearing down their drywall, which I didn’t have the option to do.
Lisa
Thank you to Barb and Miss V.
It’s my contention that if one is waiting many months or even years while trying to fix the problem (allowing curing time, allowing off-gassing, waiting to make sure the heat and humidity won’t bring it back, etc.) and also spending a considerable amount of time and physical effort / exposure and expense just to avoid replacing the drywall — then why does just replacing the drywall become the greater of the evils?
That is, if I spend 800$ or more on labor and materials, and do this over the course of 2 years (during which I can’t use my room) – then why did I do all that if I could know that replacing the drywall for $2000 would have solved the problem for sure in a matter of a few weeks? Especially since in my case the spaced-out primer applications and final topcoat didn’t solve the problem anyway? Was I supposed to apply more topcoats? What about the fact that after two years I have no legal recourse due to the statute of limitations?
Sorry, this may sound a little snarky, but I don’t mean it to be. I probably would have done a lot more to aboid replacing the drywall, because it’s never the same as the original and it was a giant mess and nuisance with a lot of collateral damage. The room will never be the same unless we want to spend even more money replacing damaged casings and such. But, after two years and all the things we tried – we felt that we had no more options. I didn’t have your story at that time, and am not sure I would have been willing to apply so many coats of anything ( as per Miss V)
We ended up with nearly $3000 in expenses and two years lost use instead of $2000 in expenses and one month lost use.
I understand being in a situation where replacing drywall isn’t an option. But in a rental, the landlord becomes responsible for fixing the problem, unless you painted without permission. And for those going with BIN, please be aware that the vapors are toxic to breathe and it shouldn’t be used without wearing a proper ventilator.
https://www.amazon.com/3M-Medium-Respirator-Organic-3MR5203/dp/B00LXF98DQ/ref=sr_1_1_a_it?ie=UTF8&qid=1469485586&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+organic+vapor+respirator
Barb
Believe me, if we had had the money, we would have absolutely replaced the drywall – in a shot! If you could afford it, you did the right thing. I would never want anyone to go through the protracted suffering we went through. And BTW, on closely sniffing the paint right after writing my last posting, I did still notice a faint chalky smell that would probably bother the more sensitive, so you did the right thing. We might have actually gone into debt to remove the drywall if it wasn’t for one big worry – we were terrified that we would paint the new drywall and have the issue arise again. I’m not sure if you mentioned it Lisa (I may have missed it and will look again) but what paint and primer did you use on the new drywall?
Lisa
Barb, thank you so much for your comments. The room has been left as drywall with two coats of primer. I don’t know what the primer was. The contractor asked what we planned to paint with: water or oil-based and we told him water-based. So he apparently used a water-based primer – which I don’t understand, since to me it would be more risky to use water-based directly on drywall. And since it’s ok to use oil-based KILZ under latex paint (which is water-based) again, I don’t understand the logic. However, when it was time to put the topcoat on we were too freaked out to actually have it applied.
The contractor kindly knocked some money off the final bill in order that we might apply paint at a later date. It’s been several months and we still don’t have the courage. And since we’ve now moved a lot of stuff back in there and are using the room after two years without it, it will be hard to paint. In fact, we don’t plan to paint any more rooms in the house without very careful testing of whatever paint we chose. But since even that is no guarantee, we try not to think about it. The room is very unattractive. There are gray streaks where the cutting in was done. The white casings look yellow next to the primer. Ugly! but no smell.
I appreciate your remarks about the paint company settling with you regarding the BIN applications. Here’s why:
Our experience was that the paint company was willing to pay us for the BIN applications, but wanted us to sign a release. Thanks to this site, we knew it might be a mistake to sign a release before finding out whether the BIN would still be effective in the heat of summer. (The BIN was applied in autumn,, one year after the paint that smelled)
The paint company’s lawyer has since informed us that they believe that if the BIN didn’t work, then it couldn’t have been the paint that was causing the smell – that it must be the drywall or something. I guess they are basing this conclusion on the fact that they have customer data showing that customers have fixed the odor by using BIN. Of course, what’s left out in that narrative is the fact that once the customer signs a release, the paint company doesn’t hear from them again whether the smell comes back or not. The customer has no further legal recourse after signing a release.
So, it’s the nature of this problem – the fact that the smell can come and go and be affected by heat and humidity, and be temporarily reduced with coats of primer – that is allowing the paint companies to say that they’re not responsible and they’re not liable, and that any compensation they give is a “courtesy”.
Here’s what I think ought to happen:
Since this is a problem that happens intermittently, the paint company ought to warn its customers that they might end up with a smelly room(s). That way, if it happens, the customer will notify the company immediately (instead of waiting and wondering what’s going on and trying all kinds of useless things to get rid of the smell.
Then, the company could negotiate with the customer regarding how to fix it. They could say that they prefer that the customer try a particular primer (like the masonry primer) and then remove drywall if that doesn’t work. But it’s all very tricky, because you can’t really know if any of it will work unless you’re willing to wait some period of time. As it is, there is no help from the paint companies, because they won’t even admit the problem.
This is why I advise people to remember: the paint companies DO know about the problem. Operate from that standpoint, so that you will not be afraid to claim your rights as a consumer. Insist that someone from the company come and examine the painted walls, determine that they are the source of the smell, and get it in writing with their signature. Ask for their advice. Document everything you do and don’t sign a release until you’re satisfied that the issue is resolved.
There is a possibility that after we applied the topcoat over the coats of BIN that the smell would have gone away eventually. But it was less than three months until the statute of limitations would have expired, and what if the smell didn’t go away? We felt that it was do or die at that point. So we proceeded with the drywall removal a couple of months after that, and after notifying the paint company and again asking for any advice and offering them a return visit to see for themselves that the room still smelled.
It’s the nature of this problem that’s allowing the paint companies to deny guilt. But since we are aware of the nature of the beast, we have more means to tackle it – and not let the paint companies get away with forcing us to spend money we can’t afford, and deal with the stress and strain of living with this problem and repeatedly attempting to fix it.
Barb
Yes, Lisa, we stupidly signed that release form before the issue was resolved, so desperate were we to have some monetary compensation to help us tackle the issue. Well, actually, only I signed it which, technically did leave us the recourse of my husband suing if it had become necessary. The scary part of the release form was that it made mention of the company’s non-liability in terms of future health issues!
I’m afraid that what you’d like to see happen i.e. the paint companies taking responsibility by pre-warning the customer and then taking helpful action should the problem occur, will probably never happen. To admit to the problem, even while claiming it’s rare, would be a death knoll to their sales. It’s clear to me that the only recourse we have is a large international class action lawsuit. Unfortunately, I have no idea how to go about organizing it, and no one has as yet taken the initiative. Isn’t it awful that they can get away with this?
Lisa
Barb, If you ask me it’s criminal. But the fact that ALL the paints seems to be affected by this problem would seem to indicate that consumers can’t really walk away. We need paint. And it’s that fact that also allows the manufacturers to skate – because they can claim that the utility of the product requires it’s manufacture, and that as long as they are “state of the art” (the best that can be done), they should be absolved of any culpability. That is, we need the product, they can’t make it any better than they do, so it’s just tough luck for us.
I’m sure investors who’ve never had the problem, or for whom the expense wouldn’t seem so great, this sounds fair. But I don’t see how its fair that for the occurrence of a bit of bad luck, we lose a lot of money and gain a lot of grief. Just raise the price of each paint can so that those of us who need financial help in fixing the stink can return to our normal lives without financial hardship.
There is a case of a young girl losing her life because of a particular model of car that had sudden dashboard fires. A number of these cars suddenly burst into flames from a fire that started in the dashboard. The first court decision determined that the car manufacturer was at fault, but the plaintiff lost on appeal because he couldn’t prove that the fire that killed his daughter had the same cause as all the other dashboard fires in that very same model of car. Thinking about what happened to that girl and her father puts the stinky paint issue in perspective – but makes me realize that there is little hope of justice when it comes to huge corporations making bad products. You are not stupid. you’re just another victim of the profit motive.
Brenda
Wow, a lot of comments all of a sudden. Glad to see that. First off I have to say the darknor light tints have nothing to do with it, both of my bad paint experiences were very light colors, an off white. And my friend who has this issue in the next town over from me also used a light yellow. Ivecread on this blog others have had issues with very dark colors so color has nothing to do with it. And old or new drywall has nothing to do with it. I had old drywall and painted it. With horrible results. So tore out drywall after a few months, hired a Contractor to put in new drywall. Was recommended by a remediator and also Kane used the same Harmony SW paint so thought we’d be safe, no such luck round two bad paint. We diid everything exactly the way it should be painted. Waited for the perfect temps, dry weather, let the coats dry 24 hours between coats and still smelly paint. Also had very good ventilation. So what went wrong??? Twice!!!! Going on 5 months without using our bedroom.
But I agree it’s almost impossible to fight the corporate world. Nothing will happen until someone dies from this and that it can be proved that it was from the bad paint. Good luck for all of us this that one! I almost died, ended up in the ER but no proof that it was from the paint. How do you prov that?
Barb
Wow, so discouraging. Months ago I contacted both the news department of our local TV station here in Toronto Canada, as well as one of our larger newspapers I described the issue and pointed them to this forum in the hopes that they would cover the story. Nothing. I can’t believe that with these scores and scores of common experiences we can’t the situation publicized. I give up!
Lynne
Brenda and All…one way to possibly prove it is to test the paint at a laboratory as well as the air in the room. It can be costly, however, which the paint manufacturers are well aware of. As of now, as the laws exist and as I understand it (hopefully I’m incorrect about this and someone out there can provide moe accurate information), it is up to the consumer to prove that there is a problem with the purchased product when it comes to paint. The mfg. will test superficially, i.e. will not bother to test for voc’s or the air in the room which can be toxic due to possible formaldehyde, etc. since they say it is zero voc paint, which is non-existent. Rather, they are allowed to claim that even though there are many ingredients with very low levels of it that are beneath the range allowed…wonder how lobbyists and lawyers paid by them managed to get that through the EPA or whatever governmental agencies are in charge. Add up a a bunch of those components, plus their interaction and all the other possibilities of contamination, corruption of supplies…and then there is how paint is handled by many, how the paint is mixed, warehoused and contained. Main point, however, is when there is an actuality of a problem as with many on this site and we contact them, some, like m yself find that we are then lied to as when a rep sent by corporate came to my home, initially saying she smelled fresh paint (after 10 months or so of application), walked out of the room and said she smelled nothing and the paint was dry when there is an acrid irritating smell that many, including professionals, have validated. They know the average consumer may have to spend hundreds, thousands as testing paint is complex, well known throughout the industry…I’ve been told by professionals why fight it in court given the expense…sure you didn’t cause this and it’s their fault but what else can you do. The paint manufacturers and other corporations know this. There is nothing to protect us that I know of unless you have the money to fight it or luck out by finding out the problem after only a couple of lab tests or an air test. The latter is your best option and can cost a few hundred if done by reputable enfironmental company who are ethical, important here, and know what they are doing.
I’ve also wondered if before any of us paint or do any other work, why not just apply to a small area or one wall in a seldom used, if possible, place…give it weeks, even a month, and if all ok…then apply whatever it is, particularly paint initially. Obviously millions, as Lisa said, use paint, and a small percentage far as we know, are finding the paint, etc., they have purchased is substandard, toxic, contaminated, whatever, but that equates to many thousands globally, even nationally…again, we all know paint toxicity can be dangerous given it is chemically based so this is an important issue…has anyone contacted the office of the woman on whom a film is based? She would have leads and contact information in this area. There are universities taking up the Common Cause, such as those of consumers like ourselves being treated unfairly by some mfgs….they become class projects and have been very successful.
Just some thoughts…upward and onward…thanks to everyone for such great info and please keep it coming.
Brandie
Brenda, when you have a hole in your drywall, you put a patch on it, mud it and then sand the mud down to make a smooth surface. You can take a hand sander to your drywall and disturb the finish of the paint in the same manner. It will not get rid of all the paint but will get rid of some. I figure getting rid of some is better than none. Kane, do you have a better way of explaining this?
Lynn, I have done VOC testing sadly not when it was first applied, see my previous posts. Also smelling a patch of painted wall is not effective for the most part. Sometimes it takes the full on room painting to realIze there is a problem. I think that is what is going on with Brenda the second time around.
Michelle, I have had no trouble with ECOS paints. I purchase AIR pure so I cannot vouch for anything but the primer and the AIR pure. I did purchase the stain and the AIR pure varnish (top coat). I would suggest you do a test first on a piece of raw wood. We refinished our bed frame with no issues. My husband built bookcases from lumber and those bookcases stink two months later. Let me be clear, the WALL paint is just fine. There is a little odor when painting and it is my experience that after three to four days there is absolutely no smell of paint at all. Most folks will not smell anything the first day but my nose is super sensitive after all this ordeal. Again, the wall paint is fine. Careful with the stains and topcoats. The primer is stronger than the wall paint but you will be impressed at the hardness of the finish of the primer and how well it covers. It is thick, very thick. Don’t be alarmed at first. We were surprised.
Brenda
Brandie thanks for the explanation of sanding drywall, my rooms too big to tackle that it would be easier to tear it out I think but more costly. And yes on the second time round we did a patch test, we didn’t notice any smell. We also put a painted piece in a jar no smell. This is why it’s so infuriating it’s so crazy and unpredictable.
Lisa
Brandie, if you don’t mind sharing with us – what happened when you sent your expenses to the paint company?
And thanks for sharing your story and advice. I too find that after the paint disaster I am sensitized to any unusual smell. I had a chance to talk with a gentleman who investigates chemical contamination in a variety of settings – home, industrial, etc. and he explained that it’s not unusual for this to happen. It’s almost like an allergy. You develop a reaction to an allergen and then every time you’re exposed you react. When we smell something, the molecules of that substance are actually entering our noses, lungs and bloodstream. Not all substances can causes allergic reactions. For instance, breathing ammonia is harmful, but it’s not an antigen.
Whether it’s an allergic reaction, or just a toxic chemical in the air – it’s always wise to limit exposure and I commend you for your efforts. I’d like to see manufacturing become more responsible in this area. Right now, you have to have a lot of money if you want to avoid toxicity in your food, home, etc. Of course, you can pay a lot of money for contaminants too. (bad joke)
Brenda
When we sent the paint manufacturer a bill for our costs we never heard from them.
Barb
I know that a lot of people had no luck with BIN, but it did work for us…eventually. We had the much discussed terrible smell after using BM Aura paint in one large bedroom. We jumped through all the usual hoops with the company and they settled some money on us to pay for having the paint the entire room in BIN (which to my mind, is an admission that their paint was the problem, tho’ of course, they would not admit to it verbally). We hired a painter who washed the walls down in TSP, primed (regular primer), then painted. Still a problem. We hired a second painter to cover the walls in BIN, letting it dry for nearly a week. Then we painted ourselves. The smell came through. In a last ditch effort, we once again primed with BIN and painted. Then, reaching the point of not even wanting to know, we essentially closed the door on the room and walked away for about a year if not longer. Good news? Even with our recent humid weather (which always seemed to make the smell worse) , the smell finally seems to have dissipated and the room is once again habitable. So in our case, 2 coats of BIN and waiting it out long enough did the trick. In total it took a year, to a year and a half, before the smell was finally just a distant memory ( I’d have to check my notes for the exact length of time). The nightmare seems to be over, though the Dulux paint we used recently in our front vestibule is starting to worry us with a faint strange odour – shoot me now!
Lisa
Barb – would you please email me at m l e m a 4 5 at gmail.com (no spaces – trying to avoid the e-mail bots)
Thank you!
Diane Venner
We have used Benjamin Moore Aura for 3 rooms in our house. The first 2 rooms, no problems. Then this Jan.2016 we painted our spare bedroom with plans on moving into it since it’s on our main floor. About a week after we painted I started to notice an off smell. I can’t even describe it. Like something really stale or bad. So just like everyone else I started looking for the culprit. Checked the furnace vents, the rug, the bed, the bedding etc. Cleaned it over & over. Aired it out for months!! The smell is still there & I have been trying to deal with Benjamin Moore since April when I concluded it had to be the paint. First they told me to try lemons in water, baking soda & vinegar in bowls. I tried it for weeks. Still stinks. They are telling me it’s impossible that it’s the paint. He told me something is wrong with my house…NOT. My husband is a contractor & our house is in perfect condition. We even had a home inspector come in. Ben. Moore finally has agreed to come to my house this week. I will keep you posted but don’t expect much. He already said that there is no way they will re-paint for us & is basically not accepting responsibility.
Kane
Diane, was that 3rd room a darker color than the other 2? colorants add VOCs to the paint but more importantly dark colors use a deep base vs white base for lighter colors. Deep base are less popular and that means have probably sat on the shelf much longer. Also during the winter a lot of paints get spoiled from transport and improper storage (too cold). If you read paint can labels, they advise of NOT painting below 50 degrees.
Diane Venner
We used 2 paint colours in the room & it seems to us it’s the lighter colour one that smells.
Kane
Brandie, I believe what you are referring to is called a Drywall Sanding Sponge which is good to work on small patches but very labor intensive for a whole room. There are Drywall Sanders (do keyword search @ Home Depot or Lowe’s) but keep in mind that depending on age on drywall, it may disturb lead paint.
Kane
Miss V, in your previous attempts to cover up odor, did you always use Kilz Max or tried other primers? I’m glad you were finally able to resolve your issue with Kilz Max and Glidden Duo.
Miss V
The very first attempt was done by a hired painter who used Bin. That changed my bad smell to a strong chemical smell. All of MY attempts were done with Kilz Max, water based. Only my last attempt worked. I did everything the same, EXCEPT my last attempt was strung out over a longer period of time. I just waited a lot longer for the Kilz to do its work, before applying more coats of that or the topcoats.
Michelle
Brandie,
Thanks for the review of ECOS paint. I e-mailed them asking them about my situation and this is the response:
“We recommend applying one coat of our ECOS Interior Wall Primer and at least two coats of our ECOS Interior Eggshell or Semi-Gloss Interior Wall Paint in your desired color. This system will beautify and protect the coated areas from the splashing that is inevitable from bathing your dog.
We have no complaints from customers about post-application smells that do not subside. Since we use medical and dental-grade acrylic, as well as some food-grade and cosmetic-grade materials in our formulations, most customers experience no odor when the product has dried. Generally, if a product has a smell that will not subside, it can usually be traced back to a contaminant on the surface or spoilage in the product.”
Lisa
Just some general comments in reply to the new comments immediately above:
From what I understand of the research, it’s not always the paint alone that causes the smell, but a combination of some components with the ozone in the immediate environment. That may be one reason that the smell doesn’t appear unless an entire room is painted – and – the reason why the paint doesn’t smell when you’re applying it but develops a smell thereafter.
As we’ve talked about, some issues of odor may be caused by bacterial or mold contamination. So that would be a different issue, although the result is the same: stink.
I suspect that a contamination odor would be easier to overcome with treatment, because it’s about killing the organism that’s making the smell. But I don’t know that for sure, since I’m not an expert of course. But the mysterious “wall odor phenomenon” that’s caused by some combination of the unique paint formula and the environment is supposedly not understood, even by the paint companies, although they understand much more than we do about the actual chemistry involved.
But with all of this said, there is absolutely no reason why consumers should be assuming the expense of repairing the damages done by these products unless those consumers misused the product somehow, didn’t follow directions or specifications, etc. There is a level of expectation in purchasing and using these paints. They were designed for people like us to use in the way we’re using them: which is in our homes and doing it ourselves.
Therefore, when we apply the paint in the customary way, onto clean or even new walls, with clean and new materials, in the proper temperature range, and with adequate ventilation – we have a right to expect the paint to be completely dry and smell free, typically within a month.
So, if our paint doesn’t meet these expectations, and instead it doesn’t dry properly and continues to smell IT IS A DEFECTIVE PRODUCT. THE SMELL IS THE DEFECT. That is your recourse if you decide to pursue it. There is no need to prove there’s something chemically wrong with the paint because there probably is NOT something chemically wrong with the paint (based on the current regulations). The simple fact is: the paint companies are not able to make these new low VOC paints without occasionally selling a customer a can of paint that ends up stinking. Why? Again, we don’t know. Bad colorant? Bad chemistry? Mold? Bacteria? Bad combination with the environment where it’s applied? Any and/or all of these could be causes.
The question is: who’s responsible? If we, as the customers, have done everything we’re supposed to do when using the product, and the product ends up damaging our property or making us sick – then it’s the fault of the manufacturer IF IT KNEW ABOUT THE PROBLEM AND DIDN’T WARN YOU.
We aren’t willing to live without paint. The EPA wants lower levels of VOCs. The paint companies comply but apparently aren’t able to come up with products that are immune to stinking. What to do? The paint companies need to admit that this problem is occurring and put some remedies in place.
In my humble opinion, it’s really that simple. But until the paint companies are forced to admit the problem, this will not happen. They are relying on the difficult nature of this problem in order to deny their responsibility. They just say “it doesn’t smell” or “you have no proof because the cans are gone” or “it’s not our problem because we don’t have any reports of this” or “the primer should have worked because we have evidence that it’s worked for other customers”. (with the last excuse, the company doesn’t mention that it’s had these customers sign releases, so even if the primer doesn’t work, the paint company would never know or have to acknowledge it)
Evidence needed:
Verification that the room(s) smell – which should come from the company itself in the form of a signed statement from the representative, also statements and estimates from professionals who are willing to give their advice on how they’d fix it.
Testimony from as many other people as possible, who’ve also had this happen to them
Receipts and testimony about your steps to fix it, and records of communication with the company before and after each step – like e-mails. Write down names and dates each time.
Furthermore, I would ask everyone who’s had this happen to them to report it to:
The Consumer Product Safety Commission:
https://www.saferproducts.gov/CPSRMSPublic/Incidents/ReportIncident.aspx
Also, report it to the Attorney General in your state. Look for it’s division or office of consumer division or consumer protection, etc.
See if your local health department will do any investigation or hook you up with someone who will.
Report it to Consumer Reports. Someone posted that link above somewhere. I did contact them and they sent an e-mail back saying that if they decided to do something with it they’d contact me. Maybe if they get enough reports they’d do an article on it. It was an actual person who e-mailed me back, so I remain hopeful on that one.
Remember, we’re now living in a country where corporations have a lot of power and co-operate to advance their individual goals. So, for example, the insurance companies aren’t dealing with this. And most of the media is now corporate-owned.
I completely understand why people don’t want to try to fight it this way because I think at a certain point the time and aggravation is more costly than just ripping out the drywall. For myself, I guess my time is cheap and I’ve been angered by the way I’ve been treated by the manufacturer of the paint I used. There seems to be a high level of disrespect for the consumer – the people from whom these companies are making their profits. Billions of dollars.
When this happened to me, I had no idea that it was a bonafide problem that was happening to others. I didn’t have my paint cans, and I didn’t know I was going to have to provide evidence that the room smelled after the room had had coats of primer over a period of 10 months. In fact, it seems like the paint companies are encouraging people to prime over the bad paint in order that they might later deny that the paint smelled or that the primer didn’t work. One can easily begin to suspect that this is a plan of denial. But who knows what the employees at the company know? I was in a Benjamin Moore store, talking to the manager, and referred to the class action suit against BM for it’s Natura paint, and he said he didn’t know anything about it. That seems impossible, since the “recall” on that product was extensive. But why would he lie? however, he also agreed to come to my home to examine the topcoat I used – and never showed up.
With all the painters in and out of my house, all the phone calls made to various contractors who didn’t show up or cancelled, moving furniture, loss of use of the room, the mess and stress of drywall replacement, the arguments about what to do – – this certainly is an injustice. I encourage those who feel they are able and have the evidence to file claims against their respective companies. And please report the incidents to the appropriate organizations so that there will be more awareness of the issue. That way new victims will have a better chance to have their ducks in a row should they find themselves in this same unfortunate situation.
THANK YOU ALL FOR CONTRIBUTING.
Again, here is my e-mail if you’d like to send me any info:
m l e m a 4 5 (no spaces) and that’s at gmail.
I’m not really doing so much with this problem now, as life must continue (for all of us) But I will continue to have this on my radar and contribute whenever and however I can.
Anita
WILLIAM THANK YOU FOR THE DETAILED ACCOUNT. WHERE DO YOU LIVE? YOU DESCRIBED EXACTLY WHAT WE HAVE BEEN EXPERIENCING IN OUR MOUTHS. Everyone, please post your location. There are so many posts on this blog, some of us must live near each other.
Brenda
I live in Western Massachusetts
Lisa
Southern Indiana
WilliamE3
Northwest Washington, DC.
And yourself, Anita?
WilliamE3
As a scientist, and likely as a point of establishing solid evidence if this makes it to the courts, it is critical that the smells are sourced accurately. This may take some testing on our own to confirm, and it also calls for use of appropriate “controls” and good test design, where possible.
Someone mentioned a smell related to the bathroom.
After I purchased my place, and some sleuthing, I sourced multiple stenches to:
– semi-gloss on trim, casings, floorboards, doors, and kitchen and bathroom walls.
The worst, and the source of my asthma.
– flat on all the drywall.
– a mystery smell in the bathroom
– a new smell I added with replacement, new, particle-board doors.
I eliminated the semi-gloss smell by removal, or 3 coats of BIN and a top coat of new semi-gloss. My freshly acquired asthma disappeared at the cost of $8,000. I’m working on resolving the doors, as well as the flat.
The biggest surprise discovery was sourcing the bathroom stench. I went away for over a week and turned off the main water shut-off valve, AND drained the toilette. When I returned, the smell was gone for a week. I did that 3 separate times. Same result. So when the smell last returned, I poured about a quarter gallon of bleach in the toilette tank. I let it set a while, flushed, let it set a while, and repeated with another quarter gallon. I followed this with vinegar. I did it again with isopropyl alcohol. And once more with ammonia. (Never mix bleach with ammonia!) All over the course of half a day. The smell was gone! It had to be resident in the lines that were built into the toilet rim that transported water from the tank to the bowl. All chemicals I used, and the way I used them, would qualify them as low, intermediate or possibly high level disinfectants. Meaning, my source was bacterial. This proved that it was NOT the original semi-gloss smell coming through the 3 layers of BIN and 2 layers of new semi-gloss. (It was kind of a different smell, anyway.) The 3 times I left for a week, water off, toilette drained, resulting in no odor, confirmed it, based on repeatability.
By appropriate “controls” and good test design, I am referring to eliminating the variables and interference. When I am home, I wake up with a foul chemical taste in my mouth, and coughing white pigmented phlegm (onto a black cloth). When I go away for a week, I keep the same rituals – same toothpaste and mouthwash when I go to bed – but I have no chemical taste or white phlegm when I awake. Besides the obvious: no odor. Another example was turning off the water for a week in that bathroom: the walls didn’t change, but the toilette was dry – which correlated highly with no odor.
After that, I realized another source of smell coming from the sink overflow hole when I turned on the sink. I flooded that will bleach, repeatedly, and let it set; and that seems gone. The next time I spoke with my plumber, he said: Oh yeah, I coulda told you that.
As many of you know: some smell it, while spouses don’t.
I had asthma, while others didn’t – and my Allergist said that was perfectly likely.
If this goes to court, the facts gotta be solid, evidence irrefutable, nothing subjective.
Anita
William, Brenda and Lisa thank you for posting your locations. I live just outside of Philadelphia, PA. William have you noticed any irritation or discharge from your eyes? Check the corner and lids of your eyes near your nose for a white, foamy deposit. Being a scientist, maybe you know a colleague with a background in toxicology or chemistry that would recognize the taste we are describing in our mouths and the white substance we are spitting out in our saliva. It does look like we are ingesting and spitting out white paint particles. Perhaps the substance could be analyzed for the chemicals found in our paints. I am 100% certain that the chemical fumes in my home and the health problems that have resulted are from the paint.
Lisa
WilliamE3 – it’s definitely important to identify the source of the odor when the paint is suspect. In most cases here, the person complaining had no bothersome odor before painting, but found that after painting the odor developed. While it’s of course possible that the development of the odor was coincidental to some other cause (plumbing, other paint, dead animal, mold, etc.) most of those can be readily eliminated when the smell is coming from the paint. Notably – the painted wall is emitting the smell when nothing else is.
Regarding irrefutable proof: that would be of the smell itself. If the paint reeks one month after it’s been on the walls, and the wall was fine beforehand, and you properly prepared the wall and applied the paint – then the fact that the wall stinks should be proof enough that there was something wrong with the paint.
So again, I really must advise anyone who hasn’t yet tried to prime over their stinky paint: GET THE WITNESSES IN THERE. Get the company rep in there – get their names and e-mails. Follow up IN WRITING as to what they witnessed with regard to the smell. If they deny it, have them come back!
Please, I am advising you from experience. The paint companies are getting away with this because the defect is an odor, and odors are subjective. It’s too easy for them to deny that there was an odor once you’ve covered it up or removed the drywall. Another fact that they’re taking advantage of is that the odor may typically appear after you’ve painted. You may not have the paint cans anymore, or even receipts. Always save receipts for everything. (I know that’s useless advice if you’ve already disposed of them)
And don’t be afraid to insist that the paint company co-operate in documenting the problem. This isn’t personal – this is business. And that applies to you and the paint company both. They are defending their financial interests and you have to defend yours. But, you may also be defending your health interests, so you should NEVER be shy in demanding that the manufacturers examine the evidence, WHICH IS THE SMELL. They should be able to explain why their paint is stinking up your room or house. They’re the experts. They’re the ones who know what’s in the paint. And they know that this issue is occurring.
And although I’ve said it before, it bears repeating: if, like Anita, you are suffering health consequences – go to a doctor and call a personal injury lawyer. There are time limits on all these things, and many people like Anita have already suffered with no recourse because the paint companies are being negligent in not warning customers about this. I started getting headaches from the situation in my house, and very much wish that I had seen a doctor at that time. Perhaps I could have enlisted the help of the health department if whatever was off-gassing in the room was hurting my health (which it probably was).
How much a person wants to fight this and how successful they will be depends on so many factors that it’s truly impossible to encourage or discourage anyone appropriately. The comments I’m offering are intended to provide information that might be useful. I’ve appreciated the info that I gained here, and just want to add to it if I can.
Lisa
PS – I’ve also said this before, but:
If you painted and got the stink – and the stink is causing you to be sick – go to a doctor and call a personal injury lawyer. A personal injury lawyer will know what to do to get the evidence that the paint odor is making you sick. He or she may have the analysis done to find whether or not the off-gassing includes harmful chemicals. And they may do this without any charge to you if they believe you have a case. Why? Because personal injury claims can bring big financial rewards, whereas our property damage isn’t worth prosecuting.
If you’re sick, don’t mess around. There’s a statute of limitations, and also the harm to your health could be cumulative. The profit motive has already robbed us of our peaceful homes and bank accounts – don’t let is take your health too.
karen
PLEASE DO NOT USE ANYTHING FROM SHERWIN WILLIAMS!!!!! IT DAMAGED ME AND RUINED MY IQAIR FILTER AND POSSIBLY MY AUSTIN AIR FILTER.
Anita
Hi Karen. Thank you for the warning. Where do you live? Please tell us what happened to you with Sherwin Williams paint? BEHR PAINT RUINED MY HOME AND MADE ME AND MY FAMILY SICK!
Barb
AN UPDATE – Forget about BIN folks! Right after posting in delight on this board that we had solved the Ben Moore problem, we had two days in a row of very hot humid weather. The stench which I thought we’d eradicated with two coats of bin and primer then resurfaced. The BIN did help with the smell in cooler/dryer weather – it’s virtually non-existent under those conditions. But the moment the weather changes to hot and humid, the smell resurfaces. ARGH! Hate to say it but: remove your drywall if you can afford it!
Kane
Barb, sorry to read BIN did not work for you. Seems like everyone who has tried it including myself did not have success with it.
What brand of paints did you use the after the initial bad experience with BM Aura?
williamE3
Anyone ever try VaporLock, buy Enviroguard? New product? 2015?
Interesting “head-to-head” testing at http://restoration-chemicals.com/head-to-head-testing-amongst-four-top-competitors-for-smoke-odor-sealing-and-stain-hiding-the-results-might-surprise-you/
Sure, its advertising.
But it does look like a well designed comparison of BIN, to KILZ, to VaporLock on smoke saturated wood.
Another option.
Kane
WilliamE3, too bad that product is not widely available in retail stores.
Diane Venner
Benjamin Moore is coming to re-seal & re-paint our bedroom. They said they would start with that & hope it worked.
Kane
Diane, please make note of brand and products they use. I suspect they will either use their own “Fresh Start” primer or BIN.
Also note time between application of each layer of primer/sealer and paint. Good luck!!!
Lisa
In my very long comment above, I advised people to report their paint problem to the Consumer Product Safety Commission, and I gave a link for that site.
I also advised contacting the Attorney General in your state, looking for Office of Consumer Protection, or Consumer Safety Division, etc. (the appropriate department has different names in each state, but you should be able to find it under your State Attorney General)
And although I know I’ve mentioned it earlier, I will here again list the Federal Trade Commission.
https://www.ftc.gov/
These three agencies should be hearing from us.
Why?
Because no matter how many individual calls are placed to each company, as long as this remains a scattered issue that they can ignore there will be no change. Even after all the complaints they’ve received, they can still deny they problem if they refuse to acknowledge it. They don’t track these issues, and they probably don’t even record most of the calls they get as being possible instances of an industry-wide problem. Each instance is different, so they can pretend that each case is a different problem. And while we all know that the causes can be different, there are too many times we’ve heard: “we painted, we ventilated, we waited, IT STILL STINKS”
Benjamin Moore, PPG (makes Olympic and many others) and Sherwin-Williams were all charged by the FTC for mislabeling some paints as low or zero VOC when in fact only the base paint was. Once the colorants were added, the product was actually mislabeled because it was no longer low VOC.
Manufacturer’s have to make money. But must it be at our expense? Is this just a conspiracy to generate income for manufacturers of primer, paint, painting materials, drywall, building materials, air testers, etc.? It’s probably more likely that greed is playing a role at the highest level. Someone, somewhere, is making a decision to deny their obligation to us as faithful customers who’ve been wronged.
Michelle
Rest of drywall being pulled down today….
Anita
Michelle I am glad you are taking down the rest of the drywall instead of trying to put more dangerous chemicals on top of the toxic paint chemicals and risking your health and that of your family. Where do you live? Please keep us posted.
Michelle
Hi Anita,
I live in Denver CO. This thread has been enormously helpful. If I hadn’t read it I may have tried encapsulation. However most of us chose zero voc paint due to not wanting toxic smells in our homes. That makes the heavy duty primers very unattractive.
Michelle
Dan
It’s so painful to see so many people, myself and my family included, suffering from this horrible issue. It took me a few hours, to barely go through the entire thread. To summarize:
1. This is a world wide issue.
2. It happens to almost all brands of paints/primers.
3. It almost exclusively happens on low/zero VOC paints.
4. The persistent odor after painting lasts years (reported as long as 4 years)
5. NOTHING really works except tearing down and redo the dry wall. In one case even that didn’t help (forgot the owner’s name. Please correct me if I misstated on her case where even redoing dry wall didn’t help)
6. CONFIRMED measures that failed include: ventilation, priming/painting over it (doesn’t matter how many layers, and what type of prime/paint over it), Onion, Vinegar, Lemon, Chlorine Dioxide, Charcoal, bleach, Lysol, heat up rooom (in few cases it seemed to work, in other cases it didn’t),
7. This is a SERIOUS issue and is plaguing so many people’s life and health around the world.
8. Paint manufacturers around the world most likely know this, but pretend not, putting people’s health in danger.
9. It may take either a class lawsuit or a major media exposure (or both) to really let the public know this. Right now it seems to be only limited to those whose life is ruined by this, which, after all, is a tiny minority of population.
Being a scientist/engineer myself, I feel that this would be a great research topic for some chemists. However, it may be a tough battle for individual consumers/scholars against the big paint industry (just like the VW emission scandal and other similar cases). Nevertheless, I do believe truth will eventually prevail, even though the time may not have come yet.
P.S. some basic info of my case:
Painted daughter’s room (~100 sq ft) 1.5 years ago, and it’s been smelling badly since (to the point you have to hold breath when getting in the room to open the window). 3 more layers of primers (Kilz Max) and 1 layer of paint (Behr) was applied. Still no avail. Each time a new layer is painted, the smell changes.
One more question – before I go for last resort of tearing down and redoing dry wall, anybody tried John’s suggestion of doing dry wall mud directly over the paint ??? I’m thinking of giving it a try…
Thanks so much!
Dan
Brenda
It’s been 7 months dealing with my bad paint bedroom issue. Since tearing out the very toxic walls back in April and having new Sheetrock put up, primed and painted with SW Harmony and again getting bad fumes just not as strong as the first time with Lowes Olympic paint, both paints were suppose to be low VOC and One Coat.
We have sealed it with Safe Coat and Kilz Max and the smell changed, it’s not as bad and sometimes almost disappears but comes back when room gets hot from sun or humidity.
I’ve lost the battle with my husband to tear out walls again as the odor doesn’t bother him, he tells me he smells nothing but I sure do! Anyway, he’s agreed to try wallpaper that is commercial grade,my out can’t tear it, it’s not porous so I’m hoping it seals it. I don’t know what else to do ?
I will let you all know if this works, I am seriously praying ?
Brenda
An update on my situation. We were going to wallpaper over our bad painted walls because my husband kept saying he doesn’t smell anything. Well he was put on prednisone for a sinus infection and it must have cleared up as this morning he went in the room as he had put all his clothes back in there. He came out saying he’s taking the walls down as it stinks! OMG thank you!
It will be stressful again but at least this time we WON’T repainted or prime. We will wallpaper the top and put up a prefinshed headboard on the bottom and I will finally have my bedroom back ?
Lisa your advice is very good, I wish we had the time, energy and “smarts” to fight the paint corporations. But I’m afraid that would put too much of a strain on an already over stressful situation. We are fortunate we can afford to redo our room again. It bites but we just want normalcy back in our home.
Good luck to everyone. I will will continuing to check in as I hope to hear one day that someone was brave enough and lucky enough to file a lawsuit and win.
I will continue to let every person I meet know about the toxic paints!
Michelle
Brenda,
So glad to hear you have a resolution with tearing down the drywall again.
Our joint compound used also for texture took 2.5 weeks to dry to be odor free. Just a heads up in case you have to wait a while before putting up the wallpaper and such.
Brenda
Michelle
Thanks it is a relief that’s for sure. My husband tore it out today and so far with windows and fans going the smell is gone. We will leave it air out for at least a week then resheetrock and will let that dry for a week or two. We are using 12 foot drywall to minimize the amount of mud. We will make sure it’s thoroughly dry before putting the sizing on the walls to wallpaper. We are not priming as the SW Harmony primer also had a bad smell when we used it.
It will be another month at least til we have our bedroom back but I can sure live with that! I feel an evil has left my house! ?
Michelle
Hi Brenda,
I just put up the ECOS Primer today. Little to basically no odor going up. Was the consistency of thick pudding. Very easy to put on with a roller. Harder to get the edges with the brush as my Prudy brush left lines and didn’t put it on very thick. I had a respirator at the ready to use it but did not need to.
We let the drywall mud dry 3 weeks. Let it go as long as it needs to until there is no odor at all. It took alot longer than we thought.
Brenda
Michelle that’s great, glad to know there is paint you can use. I’m afraid I’m too gun shy after happening twice. We did let the drywall mud dry for a good length of time also even though the contractor said it was a quick dry mud. I don’t think the mud would cause the toxic paint smell anyway because the first time it happened it as on on old Sheetrock. No new mud to dry.
It just feels so good to have it out of our house! Am letting the room air out for a couple of weeks before putting up new drywall. Luckily the new insulation we had put up the first time this happened doesn’t smell. Also lucky we have hardwood furniture so it’s ok too, I and airing it out and will polish with lemon oil.
Never thought I’d look forward to wallpaper but I am surprised at the great choices, some look just like painted walls. Phew!
Is the smell totally gone for you?
Michelle
Brenda,
Congrats!
Yes, as soon as we took out the old drywall the smell was gone. I was a little concerned when the new drywall mud had an odor for such a long time because the installer said it would dry over night. However a friend told us it really takes at least 2 weeks or longer and for us that was completely true. I’m going to order some testers of the ECOS colors I want to try. I’m crossing my fingers that I don’t run into what happened to you.
Brenda
Michelle,
Good luck my fingers are crossed for you! Keep us posted on your new paint and how it works out for you.
Brenda
Well an update. I was talked out of wallpapering by the owner of a Benjamin Moore store. A woman owns the franchise in my area. I’ve never used that brand or been in there before. She listened to my story and some of yours that I told her about. Of course she said she never heard of the problem but had heard the phrase Ghost Odors. Anyway she talked to me and my husband for a good 45 minutes and said she would research the issue.
She had mentioned that they also changed the wallpaper paste formulas to be low VOC, which I can’t imagine why that would be the same as paint but she said the issue of mold would be greater and said not to use vinyl paper as it gives off a lot of off gassing at first so I as turned off to that option.
She did of course recommend Nutura paint. I know I had read someone’s comments on here about that paint but not sure if it was good or bad so I need to go back and do my own research on that. Still too afraid to try paint again. Husband says maybe paint two small walls to try and if bad he will rip out again. Says he’s a pro now.
I’m trying to convince him to do ore finished beadboard. I know will have to use glue but can’t imagine that would dry ok. A friend just did hers and I love it, no smell.
Michelle
Hi Brenda,
Sorry to hear you have been derailed. I have the ECOS paint coming now so should be able to report on it soon. The ECOS primer went on fine with no smell.
I did read through this whole thread very carefully. The only paint I saw with only good reports and no bad was ECOS. I took notes while doing it so I wasn’t just going off my memory or impressions. I would not buy a BM paint as multiple lines of theirs were reported here with problems. As you have found out SW is also no good.
Brenda
Michelle thanks so much for the info saves me a lot of time rereading the blogs which tend to depress me!
I won’t use BM!!
Where do you get Ecos paint? I will look forward to hear how it all pans out for you.
Michelle
Brenda,
I bought it on-line. http://www.ecospaints.net/
Brenda
Michelle, thanks. I was just looking them up online and found that sight. I will wait until you are finished and hopefully happy with the product before I try it.
Let me know which primer you tried. I saw two on the sight. Also I noticed the paint that is called Air Purifying, did you notice that one? I read reviews that said it can pull things like formaldehyde out of the air from carpets, furniture, etc. I find that hard to believe but the reviews were good. But that one said it was a low sheen, not thrilled with shiney walls.
I wish you much good luck
Michelle
Brenda,
Here is the response I got from them when I asked which products to use.
“We recommend applying one coat of our ECOS Interior Wall Primer and at least two coats of our ECOS Interior Eggshell or Semi-Gloss Interior Wall Paint in your desired color. This system will beautify and protect the coated areas from the splashing that is inevitable from bathing your dog.
We have no complaints from customers about post-application smells that do not subside. Since we use medical and dental-grade acrylic, as well as some food-grade and cosmetic-grade materials in our formulations, most customers experience no odor when the product has dried. Generally, if a product has a smell that will not subside, it can usually be traced back to a contaminant on the surface or spoilage in the product.
We hope this helps! Please contact us if we can offer any further assistance.”
I saw the odor absorber but don’t like the concept. It would have to store the odors in the paint. That seems like it would have to come back out at some point…
Brenda
Michelle thanks. I agree I don’t see how a paint could possibly filter the air! Sounds way to wired.
Brenda
Michelle, was just wondering how your Ecos paint is going? We’ve got our new drywall up and put the first skim coat of mud on and no smells. Phew…
We have decided to put up the beadboard paneling for the bottom half of the room, it’s already prefinished. But still have to decide whatnot do on the top of the walls and I’m hoping the Ecos paint turns out to be odor free. Let me know how the primer worked for you.
Michelle
Hi Brenda,
The ECOs primer was fine. Have not painted yet. Will do so this week. I only have the ceiling paint. I am going to put up ECOS Interior Wall Eggshell in BM Simply White. I got three sample colors but not sure I like any of them for my bathroom. I will let you know how it goes.
Michelle
Brenda,
On Mon. I painted the ceiling with ECOS eggshell interior. There is a slight smell going on but nothing when dry.
On Tues. I did the second coat on the ceiling and the walls. Slight smell going on but then nothing when dry.
Today (Wed.) I did the second wall coat and ran out of paint so had to order more. I really wanted to wait a few days in between coats but couldn’t help myself…. At least I waited over night. I did wait 3 weeks for the drywall mud to dry. And at least a week for the primer to dry so hopefully it is OK that I did the two paint coats 24 hrs apart. The can says you can recoat in 6 hours but I am trying to be cautious.
I had ordered the ECOS paint in BM Simply White. The ECOS version is quite a bit more yellow than BM Simply White so I am disappointed in that. Hopefully it will lighten as it cures. It had poor coverage but since I was going on over white primer it did OK. But I would not call it thick paint. However it was forgiving of my brush marks and rolling over wet paint so I give it kudos for that. It also did not drip except in the ceiling corners where it is hard to not put too much paint. So overall it goes on decently. The application notes say to use a gloss roller or some such thing. I just used the basic Prudy White Dove Lint Free from Lowes.
It is so tempting to run out to BM and get a can of the right color. However I keep telling myself that is how I got into this mess so I have resisted the temptation. However I did take an old rusty can of BM Simply White out of the basement to use for a patch. But I don’t think I can buy a new can after this experience so not sure what I will do when I need to touch up our existing trim or ceilings. So far I hate the ECOS version of Simply White. I am not fond of dingy yellow.
I had ordered 3 other sample colors which were all awful. Part of the problem may be that the sample paint is very thin and they give you the tiniest little jars that barely do a sample board and a 2 ft by 1 ft patch on the wall. In fact with two of the containers I couldn’t get enough paint on for two coats on the sample board. Trying to do samples by mail when your room is all torn up for painting is very frustrating when you can’t just dash out and get another color.
I checked all the other whites on the ECOS color deck I bought. None look like BM Simply White. In fact it did not appear they had a true white. I am going to email them and ask about what they recommend for just plain white and if their paint will cure lighter. Some paints take 3 or 4 weeks to cure completely and show the true color. I remember this happening when I was painting with Sherman Williams.
Hope this is helpful.
Brenda
Michelle
Thanks for the update,met made me decide to go ahead with my husband’s suggestion of using the ceiling white paint on the walls as I have decided to go pure white no tint like a few others on the blog. We still have ceiling paint. Or maybe I’ll decide to do the Zinsser primer and leave it at that. I was a bit freaked today when I went in the room I could smell a slight tinge of “that smell” I then smelled around and found my husband didn’t tear out the old painted Sheetrock behind the baseboard heater which still has the bad paint on it. Ugh!!!!!!
So I’m not looking forward to telling him it has to go. I can’t believe he did that!
Michelle
Brenda,
I like your idea of ceiling white. If you have paint that you know doesn’t smell use that and be done with it.
I contacted ECOS regarding the color and they sent me a photo of the mixed paint and the BM Simply White paint chip. I could see in the photo it wasn’t a match. I scolded them for sending it out like that when it was so obviously not a match (don’t know how they took that but honestly they need to review their procedures when they do something like that). They offered to remake the paint if I paint up a sample with Simply White and send it to them. Simply White was the BM 2016 color of the year. You would think they would have a formula for that worked out and stored in their computer. I had asked them ahead of time if they could make BM Simply White and they said they did it all the time so I figured they did. They also offered to send me a painted sample of their plain white paint which I took them up on.
I’m just a bit frustrated right now because I put back the light fixtures, fan cover, and electrical outlet covers which I will have to remove and retape to paint again. If their plain white works out I’ll just use that rather than trying to have them remake it.
I had wanted to do the walls in a silvery grey color but the sample colors I got were so bad we couldn’t even tell which chip two of them belonged to. So I gave up trying to find a good grey through them. But maybe after I get over my disappointment I will try again. The paint does seem very thin and weak so more coats couldn’t hurt when this is a bathroom. Because the walls aren’t yet done I can’t put back in the toilet or the vanity and the round trip time for a sample is 1 week to receive, 3ish days to look at the sample on the wall and to let the color cure on my poster board and then if I like it another week to make and receive the actual color. So were talking about 3 weeks (probably more like a month with weekend delays and my own availability) from the time I decide to order another set of samples to when I would actually have the paint to put up. In addition I have to expose myself to the paint fumes again, I have to get new brush and roller, I have to spend the several days painting, taping, cleaning up etc…. All because someone didn’t say, wow, this paint doesn’t match. Let me remix it.
Brenda
Michelle
I feel your frustration! Same thing here. My husband has spent thiscweek musing and sanding, today was last day for sanding am vacuuming now, ugh. I hate Sheetrock dust!!!
My husband wants to use the Zinsser on the sanded drywall for a primer, hoping that will be ok. We used it the second time round on the new Sheetrock and it was good until the tinted paint went on so it should be ok, it just makes me shiver thinking about putting any kind of paint up but since I can’t convince him to beadboard the whole room I give up. But no tinted paint will ever go in this house again. At last we updated all the rooms in the last 5 years. And have kept all our old paint for touch ups.
I can still smell light hints of that odor in the closet which was never painted. Hoping if we do Zinsser in there it will help plus I plan on getting a room purifier once we are done. It just seems so never ending!!!!
Brenda
Michelle did you gut your whole bathroom, walls and ceiling? I’m noticing a slight smell in the room guessing it got absorbed in the ceiling but can’t rip out ceiling. Wondering if it’s just a smell, like cigarette smoke would do or can absorbed smell off gas?
It was such a relief when the walls were gone the strong smell was gone but now there is a faint smell of it. Ugh
Michelle
Brenda,
We took out the whole thing, walls and ceiling. Also because our tile didn’t go all the way to the ceiling we took out the wallboard that the tile was on which meant the tile came out. I’m really surprised that the ceiling would absorb it but Kane said his furniture absorbed it. We only had a wood vanity in the bathroom and it did not absorb the smell. Our ceiling was never painted with the bad paint but I wanted to be super careful and not end up with the lingering smell.
Remember my drywall compound took 3 weeks to stop smelling so maybe that is what you are smelling? Right now with red construction paper on the floor, the new drywall, new insulation, new wall mud, new primer, new paint our bathroom has a slight new construction smell or new paper smell.
Sorry to hear you are still having a smell. My bathroom is stalled because ECOS sent the wrong color paint. We can’t put it together until I get a decent colored paint in there. They are sending me their plain untinted white sample and I am very tempted to go with it. But what I really want to do is run out and BM Simply White in something with VOCs that won’t give off the zero VOC permanent chemical odor.
The whole thing makes me very discouraged because the bathroom prior to being painted with toxic paint was BM Simply White. I had wanted to try grey and the color I put in was super pretty. But unfortunately it appears ECOS can’t mix colors for squat so trying to work with them remotely to get a color appears to be really difficult when I just want to get this nightmare project over with.
Michelle
I take back what I said about buying BM paint with VOCs. I just reread some of this thread and immediately saw people with problems with the BM Ben line (0 vocs) and Muresco (44 VOCs) line.
Brenda
I take back the comment I made saying my room no longer smells after tearing the walls out. It seems to be still morphing as I call it. Weather has changed, warmed up and muggy and a hint of that smell is back. It must be permeated in the wood floor and ceiling as well as the closet. I just can’t handle this anymore. I’ve been having heart palpitations a lot and am going to see a cardiologist. ?
Michelle
Brenda,
So sorry to hear about the heart palpitations. This situation is extremely stressful. I went into the emergency room a few months ago for what felt like a heart attack. I’ve also been on an off with what felt like heart palpitations. Turns out it was GERD. We have a very wealthy natural leaning population out here in CO so I avoided misdiagnoses (but still had my heart thoroughly checked out and tested first) and heavy drugs. My Dr. recommended D-limonene for the GERD and that solved the heart palpitations. Turns out the GERD irritated the vargus nerve which made my heart feel like it was pounding at night when I lay down to sleep. I was also getting faint headed and chest pains during the day. While hooked up to the machines in the emergency room this occurred when my heart rate went into the 40s. So when ever it got too slow I felt like I was having a heart attack.
Whenever I felt really stressed my heart rate dropped. My uncle who is an emergency room physician said this is very common. They would always see it when they were administering shots, putting in IVs etc. in the emergency room. That is why I was able to figure it out while in the emergency room. I was hooked up to the machines so could see whenever my mind thought about the situation my heart rate dropped. When they put in the IV my heart rate dropped. When they took blood my heart rate dropped. If I lay there thinking about pleasant things my heart rate was more normal (for me) in the upper 50s or low 60s.
I’ve been taking homeopathic remedies for stress and Rescue Sleep from Bach to sleep at night. Also Wyndmere Stress Relief roll-on. I tend to respond well to homeopathic and essential oil remedies so these work for me.
I keep telling myself the replacement process only takes money to solve but it is hard to not stress out when your applying new paint and exposing yourself to the chemicals and when the drywall guy screws up and then doesn’t show to fix it or tries to fix it but it still looks bad. I know the remedy is to just hire someone else but then I risk the stress of them screwing up and it all ends up feeling stressful. I still have to get a tile person in to put in tile and worry about whether they water proof right, do it right, get the tile laid right, grout right etc.
Don’t be surprised if the Drs you see don’t know about the GERD/vargus nerve connection. Be very careful to not let them put you on GERD medication and try the d-limonene first. It is available on Amazon and in health food stores. The emergency room had never heard of the stress/heart rate slow down connection. They were all young people and may have observed it but never made the connection. Certainly it was happening in my case and until I got my uncle on the phone no one was able to explain it.
Brenda
Michelle thanks for the encouraging info. I have an appt with a cardiologist but not until the 25th. So hopefully all will be ok. But I am so tired of it all.
Michelle
Brenda,
How are you doing?
Update on work here. I just got some drywall patches done. They were sprayed on Sun. morning. I waited until Tues. afternoon to prime. I used the ECOS wall primer. This morning the area has a sour smell. I was going to paint it today but I will now wait until the smell dissipates. It is much easier to wash/scrape it off without the paint. I suppose I should have let the drywall compound dry for a couple of weeks but one of the patches was in our master bedroom and I wanted to encapsulate the dust. Sigh…I guess it will eventually dry out to be smell less. But it is illuminating to find out you can’t double or triple the recommended drying times. You have to go weeks and weeks between each item. Very trying.
Brenda
Michelle,
I have given up. The room has been primed with Zinser and still has a sour smell. It must be permeated in the wood floor, ceiling and closet. The ceiling was just primed two days ago and closet today. It still smells sour. We can’t tear it all out and the smell doesn’t bother my husband so he’s determined to move back in. I won’t!
I feel so defeated.
My husband did mention this problem to the small local hardware store where he purchased the primer from. The manager actually said he heard of this problem before and has just come back from some conference where they all talked about it for over an hour. He didn’t say there was any resolution. But it was the first time anyone on the “other side” acknowledged it. He did say they thought it was from tints!
So now my worries will be for my husband’s health once he starts sleeping in that room.
Keep me posted if your new sour smell dissipates. Did you tear out your floor also?
Michelle
Brenda,
Sorry I wasn’t clear. My bathroom where we tore out all the drywall is fine. No weird smell at all. Just a dusty construction like smell because it is still all torn up. I’m waiting on the white paint from ECOS.
The new sour smell is in an office where I removed a built in and had a drywall patch done. The mud apparently needs 2-3 weeks to dry. However the texture sprayed on was so much lighter than what I did in the bathroom I thought it would be OK to prime after just a couple of days. Not so. It has obviously not fully dried based on the smell. But I think it will eventually dry out because the bathroom did. However it took 3 weeks. Also it is much cooler now so maybe it will take longer.
I actually had three drywall patches done. One was to my master bedroom ceiling. This is the one I was worried about releasing dust and wanted to encapsulate. Probably should have waited on all three. Sorry for the confusion.
Michelle
Hi Brenda,
Any update? My sour smell from the new drywall texture in my patch area is still dissipating. Last time it took 3 weeks and it has only been 2. Plus I primed it so that may slow it down.
I just put up the ECOS semi-gloss in the bathroom. Don’t know if I made a mistake or not. The ECOS eggshell had very little odor. The semigloss smells strongly of paint chemical. In fact it smells so much like the stinky Behr that I am worried. I didn’t have a chemical respirator ready to go (stored all the way in the basement and I was too lazy to go get it) and painted without it but will use it for the second coat. But first have to see if coat #1 dries odor free. Very disappointed in ECOS semi-gloss. With this type of strong odor might as well use usual VOC paint. So far the odor hasn’t caused me a health problem like face flushing, headache or coughing but I’ll see how I am tomorrow. I have two fans blowing air into the room and every window and door in the house open.
I had the room all prepped and the equipment ready so when I opened the can and smelled it I blindly went ahead. That is what I’m worried about. Maybe I should have abandoned the paint and gone and got some regular VOC paint… so hard to tell. While the coverage isn’t great it is tough stuff when it gets on your skin. There is no soap and water clean up. It is purely scrap off your skin cells. I had a wet microfiber with me so got to it when it was still wet and still had to scrap off the skin cells. At least that gives me hope it will stand up to the bathroom wetness.
I will update when it dries with how much odor is left.
Brenda
Hi Michelle
I’m very curious to how your outcome will be when all finished and paint had dried for a while.
My case has been awful. We have torn out the Sheetrock twice and smell is still there. The first time the walls came down it was so much better we thought phew we are good but once the new walls went up and repainted the smell was back strong again. Thought it was the SE paint but now I don’t think it was from their paint. I think it was still in the room in the wood floor and ceiling and closet that was never painted.
When we tore the walls out the second time we put plastic on the wood floor to prep for priming with the Zinsser. The primer was put on and dried and no smell. The next day we took up the plastic it started to smell again and would get stronger as days went by.
So we put new plastic in the floor to see if the smell would go away again, it didn’t. It is so maddening!!!
But what really puts me over the edge is no support from my husband as he says he can’t smell it. He moved his clothes back in the room and I can smell that sourness on his clothes. He plans on moving back in the room, we fight about it. I’ve given up, I don’t know what to do. I have to go in the room to do laundry and I get a metallic taste in my mouth. I just as so frustrated, depressed, I don’t know what to do. Can’t afford to tear out the beautiful wood floor and gut the whole room.
?
Michelle
Brenda,
Forgot to say. Don’t forget that you can take the ceiling and closet out. If there is blown in insulation above just replace it with the batts that you stick in the ceiling joists. That is what we did. We had batts up there and replaced them with new batts.
Brenda
We can’t tear out the ceiling. Going to try Zinsser on it. Just hoping since the actual paint is gone that the slight smell will disappear in time. Hoping it is like cigarette smoke and will go away. Hoping it’s not bad as the paint is gone and can’t off gas any longer. Just hoping ????
My husband thinks I’m crazy ?
It’s such a strange phenomenon, it’s such a strange smell.