Getting rid of paint smell
Today’s question comes from Aaren. Aaren asks:
Hi hope you can help! My daughter’s room will not stop smelling. In fact, I challenged Olympic Paint and Lowe’s – going back and forth until we settled. KILZ and another coat of paint reproduced the original smell! Olympic even paid a professional to do all that work for us. The second coat of Premium One water based latex interior paint still smells. We have 2 air purifiers and had our windows opens for a week while painting and for 12 days afterward. …. As of today however we are dealing with a smell from Friday. It’s awful and I’m afraid to let my daughter sleep in there (although she has for two nights). WHAT can I do to make it go away. The room seems like it’s cursed. No other room in our house ever smelled like this… Please help with ideas of what to do. How long is this supposed to last. The smell is like a sweet, clay smell. It doesn’t really smell like paint at all. We even crawled into the attic to check for smell and it wasn’t present. We tried sprays, onions, vinegar, steam cleaning. Everything. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Aaren
To be honest I personally have never experienced prolonged smelling after painting a room. Usually something like that might happen if there is excessive moisture which makes the paint dry slower and may contribute to the paint smelling. To try to get rid of the smell I would put a container with some coffee in it. If it doesn’t remove the smell at least will enhance the air a bit.
Anita
Hi Lynn. The post from Pam was originally posted on another site back in 2007. I re-posted it here to show that this dangerous chemical contamination from paints has been going on for at least 10 years! There are many more posts like these on-line. I don’t suggest waiting for the government to solve this dangerous problem, but I think they and anyone that can help needs to be contacted. A person who works with the media told me the news media hasn’t responded because they are not getting enough calls. That is why I have suggested that we join together to contact others. If a news station gets a bunch of calls at one time, they might respond. We have all figured out that the problem is with low and no VOC paints. Most of these different paint brands come from one supplier! That’s why so many brands are effected. We all know our homes were fume and odor-free before the paint whether a DIY or pro painted. If our stories go public, others who are suffering and haven’t stumbled on this site will join us. Lisa you are right about us all being in different stages of this dangerous problem. I am glad you can live in your home and are trying to get your money back, but I have been sick and out of my home for over a year! I have spent tens of thousands of dollars. My family, like others who’ve posted here, are in the get our health, homes and lives back stage! Those who post should not be discouraged from contacting anyone or agency suggested. Those of us who can’t live in our homes, like Sandy, need immediate help from anywhere we can get it. We are desperate, trying to survive and would appreciate the help of all who post here no matter what your stage of this nightmare. Brenda, good luck with Sherwin Williams. Thank you for contacting the Justice Dept. and the TV station I posted. You understand how it feels to be sickened and out of your home because of poison paint! Brandie, thank you for telling us about the CHEMICAL BURN in your nose and the AirPure paint. It feels like I am being burned alive by stinking, hot sulfur particles when I try to walk into my home. These chemical paint fumes are burning our eyes, noses, mouths, throats, lungs and skin. That’s why some of us can’t live in our homes. Many of us have wondered why some of the early posters on this site have not returned to post updates. Sadly, I honestly think some of them are dead or too sick to post.
Lisa
Anita, you may also want to contact the consumer protection division of the attorney general’s office in your state. You can also call a report to the Federal Trade Commission.
(as I’ve linked to earlier, Sherwin Williams and PPG settled an FTC against them that they were selling VOC paint as “zero-VOC”.)
As anyone can see from my posts, I’ve always encouraged people to go to a doctor if they’re sick and verify the nature, and hopefully the cause of their sickness. I’ve also encouraged people to get as much evidence about the problem as they can.
Because, unfortunately, no one can do anything without evidence. That does NOT mean the problem shouldn’t be reported to anyone and everyone who will listen. I only made a comment about the justice department because they are about law enforcement – and if you have no evidence of a law being broken, they can’t help. That’s why we need to start with county health departments, , consumer protection division of state attorney general, consumer product safety commission, doctors, air tests, paint tests, etc. Once there’s evidence of a violation, then justice can get involved.
I’ve linked to the law suit against Benjamin Moore, where a woman in CA couldn’t live in her home because it had been painted throughout with BM Natura, and it stunk. This started a class action suit. But the lawyers only proved that the products were mislabeled as zero VOC, when in fact once the colorants were added, they were not. The case was about false advertising, not about poisoning people.
So, as I said, I would never try to stop someone from reporting this to the Justice Department. I just think it’s inappropriate and may be less likely to do any good than reporting to one of the several organizations or persons I’ve listed. And of course, media attention is good in order to publicize the problem.
I’m sorry if I inadvertently suggested that it’s wrong to call the Justice Department. I thought I was very careful not to say that – and to simply suggest that they probably won’t get involved unless someone shows that one of the paint companies is willfully contaminating their products with known toxins. I think this phenomenon is about paint companies not handling a certain problem with their products, and instead trying to suppress individual complaints by various means.
You are in a very bad situation. I don’t know what might be the best solution for you. And I understand what motivates your call to the Justice Department. I hope that you have also contacted your health department, and the attorney general in your state in order to make a complaint and ask for advise from their consumer protection division. I think if I remember correctly it’s impossible for you to address the paint company directly? Or through one of these agencies? Is that because of a statute of limitations?
I’m very sorry if I’ve been insensitive towards you, and to your situation. I do think that most people here are just trying to fix their problems, and maybe some do. For myself, even though I’d read that some people couldn’t fix their problems by priming their drywall, and had to replace it, I couldn’t really believe that priming wouldn’t help – so when a painter recommended that we had to try it before replacing drywall. It didn’t work of course. So we’ve spent a lot of money that we really couldn’t afford. That was 2 years of my life. Now it’s going on another year of battling the company, and it’s very hard because we had no idea it would come to this. There’s a strong chance we will lose and will have lost three years of time and lots of money just because the paint companies are selling this product that sometimes is defective – and in your case probably toxic.
What can be done? I still suggest calling every applicable organization, starting with the most local. Get as much free advice as you can from professionals who will give their assessment of the situation. And if you want to call the Justice Department, go ahead. But please don’t do that IN PLACE OF these other calls that might be more effective in getting to the problem. They are the same ones I’ve listed before except for these two new ones that I’ve added in this comment today:
Call your State Attorney General’s Consumer Protection Division or Office.
Report to the FTC (Federal Trade Commission)
Thank you Anita. I’m sorry if I’ve been insensitive. It’s obvious you’re in a situation that’s way worse than mine regarding toxicity. I honestly don’t know what I would do if my entire home were poisoned in that way, so that I couldn’t live there and also couldn’t afford to fix it. It is criminal. Before I ask you more about it, I’ll try to take the time to read your earlier comments again.
Anita
Lisa, I have contacted every local dept. and organization you’ve mentioned and many, many more. I haven’t even posted all of the details of the BEHR paint poisoning in my home, because it is so horrorific! My family has tasted and spit the chemicals from the paint fumes out for almost 2 years even without living in our house. It is even in our eyes. This is not about an “odor”. Poisoning people is a crime and this has been going on for almost a decade without paint companies warning consumers. When people post here that they cannot stand to go into their homes or a room in their homes. They’re not kidding! If it is inappropriate to contact the Justice Dept. and other agencies, they will let us know, but we have to try! People’s lives and everything they own are at stake. People are not going to continue to post if their suggestions are dismissed as not being thought to be appropriate in someone’s opinion who’s problem hasn’t been as devastating! It is not about being able to afford to fix it. Their are people on this blog and others who have replaced drywall and the problem still remains. The fumes have permeated every room and all our belongings. The only fix left would be to replace all drywall and flooring and furniture in the entire house and hope it is fixed! You can still live in your home even if you don’t get your money back. My house might have to be torn down and we are still sick.
LYNN
Anita, your situation if you can document all best you can would be a classic case to bring to the media, investigative journalists and the like, and if there is ever a class action suit, and there are many kinds not all of which last years in the hands of a good decent lawyer who sees there is enough evidence and cause,,,important is documentation of the physical effects to you and your family in as much detail as you can provide, doctors reports, notes, symptoms, tests then and even now if experiencing problems and affordable as important…as an aside, there are some natural ways to detox that are safe, but still document where you are now as evidence with medical reports too…i’ve been deeply moved by the courage of so many given what people have been through, also by the desperation of the ones who take on the removal on their own over and over again…along with that, the way through this as everyone else has been writing, yourself and Lisa, and so many, is to also address the source of the problem…the lack of avenues for justice for the consumer who has so little recourse…everyone in the industry knows, lawyers, environmental consultants, residential consultants, consumer complaint governmental agencies, epa…everyone knows and i have been told, ‘we know it’s not fair, but…’, quite a few times, honestly have, and so there is a portentially dangerous toxic substance going into millions of dwellings, homes, etc., and statistically, with the new lower or zero voc paints with their inherent problems and the lobby and lawyers of paint mfgs. bribing members of congress, corps do it, check it out, they slilp through laws such as the fact that there is NO TRUE ZERO VOC PAINT, they are allowed secret ingredients, and if low enuff, they don’t have to declare an ingredient, there can be many of those, and they interact, etc…plus sometimes they are improperly mixed, they squeeze out of liability if smelly paint by sayign they compared it to the original ‘batch’ and then get to throw away that batch of evidence so the consumer has no proof in court…i was told no need to test for voc’s as there are none…not true scientifically and easily proven…the catch, a lawyer, money and hard for ‘victims’ tho don’t consider myself a victim but victimized by their manipulation, deceit, and borderline criminal behavior…if your symptoms are caused by the paint, aside from the emotional effects, then they are criminally liable for allowing the continuation of a product that fails often enough and turns possibly lethal…don’t think many have died or are too sick, possibly several, but the lowering of the immune system can, over time, eventually lead to an early demise or certainly illnesses, poor quality of life, and for many of us there is also the emotional and financial drain, having a form of ptsd in general terms, as not being able to resolve a problem directly in your home, or walk away from it (achoose your problem so to speak), and being stonewalled, left alone with little recourse, and deprived of use of your own home…is a major crisis…so thanks Anita, Lisa and everyone for all you do and your terrific suggestions…i’m following up Tuesday…and welcome any and all…keeping the faith with all of you.
linda
It is all consuming. I was thinking of contacting Dulux paint and asking if they wanted to wipe out their competition and naming PPG. I have never had a problem with Dulux. I am in Sydney and our politicians are all as corrupt as yours so like banging your head up against a brick wall.
Lisa
Linda – I think PPG owns Dulux now. 😛
Lisa
PPG is the biggest coatings company in the world.
http://corporate.ppg.com/Our-Company/company-history.aspx
Anita
Jean thank you for posting about how you thought you didn’t have the paint fume problem in your downstairs bathroom, but you can now smell the fumes when you close the door. Others have also noted that these paint fumes are lingering in homes even when they think that they are gone. Nathalie thank you for posting about your problem in Belgium and for letting us all know you have seen thousands of similar complaints about these paint fumes from “the Netherlands, France, Belgium, England, Australia & Germany.” The paint industry insists this is an isolated problem which only effects a few, but thousands of posts show that this is a widespread, international, dangerous chemical contamination. Lynn I know you posted you, “don’t think many have died or are too sick, possibly several…”, but a local news station ran a story a few months ago. People were complaining about mysterious burning and a horrible taste in their mouths. The doctor that was consulted in the news story said that the problem was so serious “that people were literally jumping off of bridges.” The story got over a million hits in a few weeks. I instantly thought of the paint fumes. If paint fumes can cause a chemical burn in an adult, like Brandie experienced, imagine what it can do to the eyes, respiratory system and body of an infant or toddler.
Brenda would you please post an update when you can?
LYNN
oddest thing…was going to add re my just written post…’about walking around times square naked painted red white and blue, better try food coloring instead’, and couldn’t find your last several posts in my e-mails i had just replied to…is somebody savvy re computers as to why this is happening?…could be it’s the type of blog it is through the third party…
Lisa
This problem is widespread. The paint industry is aware of the problem but won’t acknowledge that their customers are having the problem. The insurance companies are also aware of the problem. So are expert chemists in the business.
This will not be resolved until someone who has enough money to hire a lawyer ends up painting their whole house with stinky paint and has to move out because of it. Just like the woman in California who used Benjamin Moore “natura” and started a class-action suit.
In the meantime it’s our job to publicize the problem, and to notify whomever we may, and to fight our own cause as best we can until the day we get some justice for the harm and expense we’ve suffered.
PS – Anita, I suffered the kind of taste problem described in that article. 20 years ago I had a reaction to a drug that has since had class-action against it for that very reason. A “taste disorder” where one side of my tongue felt like it was constantly sour. I had spasms in my tongue and my ear on that side was constantly ringing. It got better over time, but has never completely resolved. That side of my tongue is still somewhat numb. I have to use a special toothpaste that won’t irritate the problem. Doctors thought I was neurotic. The problem didn’t surface until several years after I used the drug. I really did drive me crazy. i couldn’t sleep because my tongue was spasming and my ear was ringing, multi-pitched tones.
It’s a horrible thing to experience. Even now I regret that I chose to take that medicine. But I didn’t know any better. Just like using this paint. I’m lucky that things weren’t worse. The amount of money we spent was a very big deal for me. We are working-class folks who had a reason for doing our paint ourselves and buying the 20 dollar cans of paint. Even that was a big investment.
I’m sure a lot of people have just taken their losses and moved on. But if your whole house is toxic, you really don’t have that option.
What can we do to help? I’ve called the media number you gave, but no one has called me back. I reported to Consumer Reports, and they did e-mail me to say that they’d contact me if they did a story. That was encouraging. Is your local news cooperative? I’ve seen local news stories here that do investigative work, and they expose rotten landlords or businesses that are ripping people off.
Let me know what I can do to help.
Here’s the complaint form for the Attorney General in Pennsylvania:
https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/MainSite/Content/ComplaintForms/BCP_Complaint_Form.pdf
I don’t remember if you mentioned them, but they will want to hear from you if they haven’t already.
https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/MainSite/Content/ComplaintForms/BCP_Complaint_Form.pdf
Also, the FTC:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1
You’ve probably already notified these agencies, but I’m posting the links here in case anyone else hasn’t.
Lisa
Drats! Accidentally posted one link twice. Sorry! Wish there was an edit button…
LYNN
Anita, i stand corrected and thanks for pointing that out…this e-mail nails it it as has Lisa, Brenda and so many others on this site…am starting litigation on my own so lapsed and haven’t been reading posts so am possibly repeating and my apologies..reason being.any responsibility in my case was denied by the paint company and contractor who claims he did his job by painting and if there’s a problem with the paint he purchased, brought into my home and applied to the wall is not his responsibility but between myself and the manufacturer of the paint…
i mention this should it help anyone out there dealing with a third party, contractor. also, or thinking of hiring someone to paint again for you…insert a clause in the contract….i’ve a breather so am reading now to catch up… the recent experimental attempts by paint mfgs. to produce a less toxic paint, supposed zero voc meaning their lowering preservataives, etc.. gets dicey when you deal with so many doing it around the world on their own in their individual labs and they screw up…badly….
If someone claims there is chocolate in milk and there is none, i can take it to a lab and get the results in a few days…sue them…they will be penalized by the feds and watchdogs…point being, i have found not one agency, legal firm, lab, consultant, governmental watchdog, that could tell me where i could bring my complaint other than court against both the paint mfg. and contractor nor why when it is self evident i am the one who has to prove their responsibility for a defective product, laying out money for lawyers and labs in order to be heard or my problem acknowledged…all the while living in a mess through no fault of my own…the governmental agencies keep records and sue when people are dropping in the streets, i was encouraged to post, leave info and comments to help others in same paint pickle and paint pickles, but when i asked what laws protected me, where i could research, etc…nothing…so may have to end up paying three hundred per hour for a lawyer just to find out…there are no pro bono lawyers where i am and nothing at the court house as in some other places…even then, it’s uphill given the scarcity and a general lawyer as this needs a consumer or product one
It’s obvious in reading what you wrote there is a glitch…a dangerous one…remember the lead in paint finally exposed?…some may…
You are right on… people have lost their lives, been infirmed by this, especially children, elderly, animals who breathe it in when it seems barely discernible..it’s insidious and builds up in the tissues and brains….fumes invade the body just as much as that chocolate milk if it has e-coli or benzedrene…
When i first had problem bought at hsn two air purifiers but closed and taped the door after three months as
advised, stayed in my bedroom and out of rest of house…there are better ones but may help a little…my heart goes out to those of you suffering with the emotional and physical pains, and i share some tho not to the extent some of you have.
Someone posted, think it was Lisa, we keep files of the information, like yours, which can be used in the future as something has to be done…re that local news story, what was the cause of the burning and taste…and where was it…if its industrial product used in homes, like paint, with the millions response maybe it could be a model for us in some way…as stood out…and wonder if anyone is pursuing the story in the media since it really got attention and stood out…this one should too like you say…unless it;ll take us walking around in the nude painted red white and blue to get attention…would Erin Brockavitch’s office know of some people here in U.S. or globally like herself that might pick up on this…think she’s going to bat for people of Flint…,
LYNN
This e-mail was written in reply to the one posted by Anita several hours ago…has it dropped off anyone else’s computer…i can’t retrieve it…anita, can you confirm when you posted it today…
LYNN
it was a sorting issue corrected…sorry
Lisa
http://www.google.com/patents/US8287631
“…A hitherto largely unresearched and to date unresolved problem is that referred to as “ghost odour”. It entails a nuisance odour occurring in rooms that have coatings that have already dried and filmed, and in some cases coatings that are already fairly old. This ghost odour may occur days, weeks or months after the coating has been applied, and is described and perceived as being like cat’s urine, perspiration, onion, rubber or fruit. It is also known that this ghost odour can be perceived with particular intensity in warm weather and at relatively high atmospheric humidity, in many cases even after a room has been ventilated, under intense sunlight, and especially in association with exposure to ozone….”
Brenday
Very interesting! The chemicals made my head swim just reading about it on the site you shared.
I have no update on my status yet, waiting for the manager to call from SW as he said he was going to research this. It’s been a week since I talked to him, I’m hoping he isn’t going to blow me off. My husband thinks once he talks to the paint manufacturer he wint be too helpful.
I’m curious, send me an email…how is your situation going?
Anita
Here are 2 posts from a pro painter’s forum in 2011:
i just finished a residential paint job the homeowner wanted BEHR ULTRA we were there for three days
the first day i noticed that my eyes started bother me the second day same thing and then the other guys that were working with me complained about the same thing i told them that i was experiencing the same thing today was our final day there so we had some touch up to do and one of the guys eyes just started tearing my eyes and the other guys eyes were itching bad now i just came out of the shower and my eyes have a burning sensation has any body else noticed or experienced this at all using BEHR ULTRA again BEHR ULTRA was the only chemical product that we were using
I neglected to use a dust mask for just a little sanding of some trim previously painted with BEHR enamel. For the next year I suffered from constant intense nasal irritation and runny nose. In over 25 years of painting, I’ve never ever encountered anything that cut up my nasal passages like that. That paint had microscopic razor blades in it or something. Perhaps they didn’t grind the powders well during the manufacturing process. It was as if I snorted talcum powder.
Everyone please get the MSDS sheet for whatever paint was used. The Behr paint that has ruined my house and the health of my family contained silica and other cancer causing substances.
Anita
Here is a 6ABC CALL FOR ACTION consumer news media link where we can submit our problem even if we think it is solved. People need to know before it happens to them. I wish someone would have warned me. There is a phone number you can call M-F 11-1 (ET). http://6abc.com/business/contact-call-for-action/153635/
If you get a response, please come back to post and let the rest of us know.
LYNN
Thanks, Anita…much appreciated.
Brenda
Anita thanks for posting that complaint link I will fill out the form and send it in plus call them to make sure they get the info. It’s important for everyone on this blog to contact them with your complaints otherwise no one will ever investigate this awful situation.
Brandie
Would anyone be interested in joining a Facebook group? Might get more folks on board as well for complaints etc. We could contact each other directly also.
Brenday
Brandie, yes the Facebook idea is great! I get so frustrated with trying to get on this site it’s so slow for me and u get knocked off a lot. Will you set it up?
Brandie
I will set it up tonight with an explanation on how to search for it.
Brenday
That’s great thanks for putting this together!
Kane
Brenda, you need to go to the store to talk to the manager. Calling you is not a priority to him and he probably just hopes it will go away. He can’t avoid a face to face.
Brenda
Kane, I did originally go in person and talked to the assistant manager, told him my story he then said he would have the new manager who was going to start the next eek call me. So I gave it a week and he did call me, I again told him my story. He said he wanted to research the info I gave him on “wall Oder phenomenon”, and said he would call me back. That was a little over a week ago so I plan on going in to meet and talk to him this week.
Brenday
Kane I went back to SE today and got the sorry but there is no solution. He was very vague I could tell he was trying not to say much. He wasn’t trying to be helpful at all so I insisted they at last pay for the bad paint and the cost of new masonry paint as I don’t know what else to do and since it worked for you it’s worth a try. I can’t seem to get into all the comments on this blog anymore and can only reply on my phone my iPad won’t connect to the blog either. Can you please tell me what type and brand of masonry paint you used?
Also Brandie created a Facebook private group hope everyone joins I think it will be easier to contact each other.
Lisa
Brenda, I think a facebook group is a great idea. We could possibly “tag” it with a number of search tags, like: stinky paint, paint odor, paint smell, etc.
Just came across this copy of the class action against Benjamin Moore “Natura” paint. The complaint matches mine exactly: odor persists and paint doesn’t dry.
http://www.courthousenews.com/2011/04/28/Paint.pdf
Also: notice to new visitors with a problem from Olympic ICON “zero VOC” paint. It has been re-named “Assure” paint. PPG says this re-naming is a result of marketing research, but that the formula is basically the same.
So, if you’ve used ASSURE paint, and you have a problem, and you call PPG, they will tell you they’ve had no complaints with that paint BECAUSE IT USED TO BE CALLED ICON. Ask them if they’ve had complaints with ICON – because you know that’s what ASSURE used to be called.
Lisa
This problem is widespread. The paint industry is aware of the problem but won’t acknowledge that their customers are having the problem. The insurance companies are also aware of the problem. So are expert chemists in the business.
This will not be resolved until someone who has enough money to hire a lawyer ends up painting their whole house with stinky paint and has to move out because of it. Just like the woman who used Benjamin Moore “natura” and started a class-action suit. (linked to above)
In the meantime it’s our job to publicize the problem, and to notify whomever we may, and to fight our own cause as best we can until the day we get some justice for the harm and expense we’ve suffered.
Notify the Attorney General in your state – ask for the department of consumer affairs. They will want to hear from you.
Also, the FTC:
https://www.ftccomplaintassistant.gov/#&panel1-1
Lisa
Anita, you’ve probably already contacted them, but just in case:
Here’s the complaint form for the Attorney General in Pennsylvania:
https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/uploadedFiles/MainSite/Content/ComplaintForms/BCP_Complaint_Form.pdf
Anita
Brandie, I’ll join a Facebook group. Whatever it takes to draw more attention to us all being poisoned by dangerous paints like BEHR! Lynn I had to tape the door to try to keep poison paint fumes out too, but it was too late. Why should we be held like prisoners in our own homes? Brenda that “wall / ghost odour” explanation from the paint industry is a slick lie designed to pin blame on consumers for their dangerous, defective paints. It’s like when Toyota blamed the unintended, sudden acceleration of some of their vehicles on floor mats pressing on gas pedals! These greedy, ruthless, companies will say and do anything to avoid taking responsibility for hurting innocent consumers.
Brandie
Hi All,
So I set up the Facebook group. I have never set one up before, so I may have some issues to adjust.
Here is the name: Friends Affected by Paint Fume Exposure.
Here is the link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1140331226010250/
If interested, please join.
I think this will be a faster. I am kind of lost in all the different replies as I read most of your posts on my phone.
This blog is getting slower as time passes.
Thanks to all!
Brenda
Brandie I unjoined the group on FB for now. I need to create a new email so I can create a second FB profile that won’t have any personal info or photos that the FB world can see if I stayed on with my current profile.
This blog seems to be pretty quiet lately, wondering if it’s just people are busy with summer?
Miss V
I found myself on this thread last April, when I was also having an issue with a bad smell after painting my master bedroom. It seemed I was never going to find a solution, after realizing that I was not alone with this problem – and that no one else had found an answer. It seemed those who were desperate enough, and took the advice of others posting, decided to tear out the drywall and replace it altogether. Being that I was renting a home, that was not an option for me. I spent 6 months trying to rectify my problem, which consisted of starting over – time and time again, by painting with Kilz and then top coating. I probably painted my bedroom about 20 times, while spending that six months sleeping on an airbed in my family room. And then, one day, I happened upon another forum and read a response from a contractor who was advising another woman about her similar situation. Like me, she’d had a problem with a smell after painting and couldn’t get rid of it. She’d painted with Kilz to seal that smell, then top coated, and then ended up with a new smell that was just as bad – if not worse. THAT was my current problem. The original funk from the original paint job was gone, but now my room had taken on a new smell, which was more of a chemical smell that made it difficult to even breathe in the room. Well, the contractor had told this woman that one or two top coats over Kilz wouldn’t get rid of the Kilz/chemical smell that she was now having. Although this is what’s recommended and often told is only necessary, he said that when painting indoors with Kilz, you may need six to eight coats of paint to kill the Kilz smell. I thought that was INSANE, but after having started over half a dozen times and finding the same problem recurring every time, I decided to give it a shot. I had already painted two top coats at the time, but went back up there and added another four coats in a two week period. THAT was the last of my problem. It actually worked. I only wish that I had done that in the beginning, and saved myself $1500 in paint and supplies.
Not sure if this will help anyone else – this may not work for you, but it worked for me, and I didn’t have to replace the drywall. I’d like to thank that contractor, but I honestly can’t remember where I saw that post at.
Michelle
Miss V,
How long ago did you do this? I just got a quote for drywall replacement, actually 2 quotes, one for $850 and the other for $2900. Clearly the $2900 person didn’t want the job as it is very small. Anyways I’m back to considering encapsulation but am not keen on exposing myself to the smells of primer only to have it fail. I was thinking of trying Kane’s concrete and masonry primer but haven’t seen any more posts reporting they had success with it.
Thanks!
Michelle
Lisa
Miss V, thank you for your contribution. There are many who don’t have the option of replacing their drywall as the only sure-fire way to get rid of lingering odors from paint. So any advice on a solution that’s worked is welcome.
There is the possibility that at the time you took the final step, the offgassing was also breathing its last breath. Because there’s no definitive answer as to what causes this problem, or how to fix it, none of us can really know what to do for sure short of replacing drywall. But every attempt that meets success is worth considering.
It’s possible that doing nothing will also bring about the eventually end of the stink – but who can wait, not knowing? And not doing anything?
Do you remember what the original paint was that started the problem?
Thanks again so much for your comment.
Miss V
The original paint was Glidden Duo. I had already painted my other rooms with the same paint, only different colors. This was the first time that I had ever had a problem with Glidden.
Miss V
Michelle, my original problem started in April 2015. It was 6 months of trying to rectify the problem. In October 2015 is when I somehow fixed it, by using Kilz and about 6 topcoats total of paint. Keep in mind, the original smell was rancid – like rotten paint. Could have been bad paint, as I was told by painters. Then after sealing the walls, the original smell was gone, but then I had a chemical smell after 2 top coats. For the next 6 months, I kept resealing the walls and trying again. Same thing every time. The last time, I just painted a bunch of topcoats and that seemed to seal the chemical smell.
Michelle
Miss V,
Thanks. It sounds like there are quite a few coats of Kilz and paint, Kilz and paint and then finally Kilz and 6 top coats. I notice the same thing with Kane’s solution. He appeared to do a number of primer coats before eventually trying the concrete and masonry primer. So I’m left wondering if mine, which is still just the original two coats (first one Behr zero VOC, second Olympic Icon zero VOC) will be encapsulated with just one coat of primer and then coats of paint. I probably should just spring to replace the drywall but that means I have to replace the tile also. Otherwise they have to leave strips of the paint and old drywall to attach the new drywall to…. all for a $30 decision to repaint and try a new color in there. And I have to say replacing the tile just scares me. What if I then end up with a leaking tile job or a poorly done tile job.
Brenda
I just read the latest comments, haven’t been on for a while. I get too depressed. My bedroom is still in limbo, my husband and I argue about what to do so I tend to ignore it. I’ve tried to get some help, input, refund from SW but they keep ignoring me. I’ve gone to the store and the manager says he can’t help me. He did say they would send someone to the house to smell the room but it’s been over a week and no word. I’m tired of dealing with any of this.
My husband said he is going to prime over the paint and try top coating with untinted paint. it was interesting reading Miss V’s comment that it eventually worked for her. That’s a lot of paint but I guess worth it if it works.
I did find a paint which I’ve never heard of before, has anyone heard of Romabio paint? Google it, it sounds like a good paint to use. I sent them an email telling of my issue and everyone’s on this blog and asked their opionion on what to do and if they have heard of this. Will let you know if I hear back from them.
Miss V
To be honest, in the end, my last attempt to fix the problem was 3 coats of Kilz. I applied all 3 in a one week period, then waited a few days to apply the 2 top coats. I had previously (with the first few attempts) only applied one coat of Kilz. But after reading so many other posts on different forums, I went for more coats of Kilz to seal the walls for sure. Kilz actually replied to an email I sent them and suggested that the longer I let Kilz sit before applying the top coat, the better it will seal. So, 3 coats of Kilz over a period of a week, then a few days to let it sit, and I started painting. Six top coats is a lot, but it was well worth saving myself from tearing out the drywall.
All I can say is, for anyone who can’t afford to tear down the drywall – like me, this is something to try. Just wear a good respirator, ventilate, run fans, then crank the heat up in that room in the night. I also bought 4 Moso bags from Amazon – charcoal, and placed them in the corners of the room. That helped absorb the chemicals in the night when the heat was on.
Brenda
Do you think Zinsser would also work for the primer instead of Kilz?
Miss V
Yep, I am sure Zinsser would also work.
Kane
Zinsser makes different types of primers Brenda so you should be more specific. I
Believe their “Cover Stain” oil based is comparable to Kilz Original. Zinsser also makes BIN shellac and 1-2-3 water based.
Brenda
Has anyone heard of Watertite paint? Was wondering if that would be a good sealer to try.
Miss V
Never heard of that. Sorry.
Kane
Miss V, so glad you found a solution! What brand paint and color did you use after the Kilz?
From prior posts many of us have wondered if the darker colors we chose could have been factors in odors.
Miss V
Kane, the paint I ended up finishing the room with was Glidden Duo. I never changed brands. I can’t stand the smell of Behr paint, so I stuck with Glidden. Originally, I was, indeed, using a darker shade when I painted my room. I lightened it up a bit to a rusty color – somewhat orange, in the end. Not sure if darker tints play a part in odor, but it’s quite possible. That HAD crossed my mind as well.
Kane
Brenda, why risk trying Watertite when Miss V and Brandie have had success with Kilz Oil?
Brenda
Kane, I didn’t realize they both used Kilz with oil. As I’ve said before I’ve been having difficulties being able to get back into all the comments and I don’t have very good memory. I can totally relate to “Dori”
Anyway, I know Kilz has a very strong odor so was afraid to use it. Did you also use the Kilz oil?
I also was hoping to find something where you don’t need to do so many coats but if that’s what it takes so be it.
Won’t be able to do it for quite a while as my husband hand hand surgery last week so he will be laid up for a while and I can’t be in the room long. We don’t want to hire it done as we already spent a fortune on this.
I never did get any help what so ever from SW. I will try again but it stresses me out so much to be taken as a fool with them.
As for your comment on dark color tint, mine was a light yellow and a friend also painted a light beige and she got the sour pickle odor.
Do you think it would be ok and work if we only paint with Kilz and don’t use paint?
Miss V
Actually, I didn’t use oil. I used the interior water-based Kilz Max. Not the clear one. I put 3 coats. I was afraid to paint with the oil. But the water-based one still stinks pretty bad. Used a respirator, just to be safe. And you HAVE to paint over it. That stuff is like chalk after it dries. It’s not meant to be a topcoat. You will want to put a few coats of Kilz, at least 2 – but I did 3 to make sure the bad odor was SEALED. Then keep topcoating until you can’t smell the Kilz anymore. That stuff is horrible, but I am glad I used it. It worked for me. I hope you also have success with it, if you go that route. Ans be sure to heat that room up to dry it out.
Brenda
Brandie you said you used 3 coats of Kilz oil and 6 coats of top coat paint. But you also mentioned you sanded your walls. How do you sand drywall?
Lisa
As of a few years ago, PPG owns Glidden. PPG makes Olympic ICON, with which I myself, along with others here, have had a problem.
Also, as I mentioned, Olympic is replacing ICON with ASSURE, but it will be the same formulation.
I wouldn’t expect anyone to read through all the comments on this page, but a YEAR after we painted with ICON and it ended up stinking, we put 3 coats of BIN over it. We did 2 coats in one day, and then a third coat a few weeks later. We thought that did the trick, but the next summer it started to stink again – it just didn’t stink as early in the summer as it did the year before.
Since 3 coats of BIn helped reduce the smell, we figured a couple more couldn’t hurt. But they didn’t help. So, a total of 4-5 coats of BIN and there was still a smell. We decided at that point we’d go ahead and try painting again, so, a month after the last coat of primer we painted with Benjamin Moore Aura. Then it smelled even worse than it did with the primer alone, even though when we applied the Aura to other surfaces it dried and didn’t smell afterwards.
So, a month after that, the room still smelled. That was when we decided to replace the drywall. We spent a total of about 3 thousand dollars on all the primer, labor and drywall replacement. We had no other options to consider at that point. It had been 2 years. We didn’t know about the masonry primer, and frankly after so much time and money we were ready to do something that would be guaranteed to work
This was a financial hardship, and also two very difficult years in our home.
It’s evident that all manufacturers are experiencing this problem. Please continue to publicize your experiences and notify appropriate agencies and organizations about this issue.
Thank you all! I am so grateful for this site and for all your comments. Having use of the affected room again feels very strange after so long. It remains primer white. It’s ugly. You can see where the shades of white are different around the edges of the walls from cutting in. But we’re just too scared to paint.
Kane
Brenda, I’m quoting from your post and I know you’re going thru a tough time and may not understand.
Your question: “Anyway, I know Kilz has a very strong odor so was afraid to use it.”
My response: Kilz is a brand. They make different types of primers including latex and oil. Yes their oil and any brand oil has a strong odor. But if it ain’t strong, it’s probably not as effective at sealing.
Your question: “Do you think it would be ok and work if we only paint with Kilz and don’t use paint?”
My response: NO!!!!! oil smells for a very very very long time. I know you read the post that Miss V was nice enough to share that she needed 6 coats of paint to cover the smell of oil because 2 was not enough.
If you’re having difficulty accessing older posts, it’s best to take notes as new posts appear as many of the questions you’re asking have been answered multiple times. I strongly suggest before you try anything to go back and hound SW in store. Emails and phonecalls are not as affective as they can easily blow you off as they have been. Keep us posted and good luck.
Lisa
When the drywall here was finished, the contractor wanted to know what kind of paint we planned to use because he would pick the primer based on the paint. We’ve never used anything on our walls other than latex. So, I don’t know if this was just in the case of newly primed drywall? I don’t know.
I don’t know that I’ll ever be in this position again, because I have begun to doubt that I will ever paint again. However, if I did, and this happened again, I would NOT let the manufacturer off the hook. I look back at how they played me now. The stinky paint was right on the walls, there were two reps standing in the room, and now the company is trying to say they “have no evidence of an odor issue”. Please, if you’re still in a position to address your stink with the manufacturer, don’t be so nice that you get screwed. Make them write something down and sign and date it. You may be glad later. Don’t let them tell you they can’t do anything. They can do everything! They are the manufacturer! These companies KNOW about this issue. There was a class action suit against Benjamin Moore. And PPG and Sherwin Williams settle a class action for labeling their paints as zero VOC when in fact the colorants added VOC. You won’t be able to claim either of those things because they are now making low VOC colorants too. HOWEVER: this is a problem that appears from time to time with various paints, and the customer shouldn’t have to foot the bill. Spread the cost we’ve incurred over the millions of customers who buy paint. Or reduce your many millions of dollars of profit to throw us a bone.
That is all. Good luck.
Rhonda
It’s called off gassing.. I am now at the point to where I gotta watch everythingg I buy… 1 formaldehyde is in everything. I used NO VOC PAINT.. IF U want to try wiping it down 1st with White vinegar/water.. may do it..we are being bombarded with way too many chemicals..in furniture stains, Pressed wood, formaldehyde in clothing u name it! Google MCS ( multiple chemical sensitivity you will learn a lesson) kind regards
Brenda
I ended up having my husband to to SW as I went there twice and called 3 times to no avail. They gave him our money back for the 4 gallons we bought from them and of course said we had to sign the relapse. We did as we don’t have the patience to do a lawsuit. and I don’t think we could handle he stress level. It would be one thing if someone already won a case and thought we had a chance.
My husband wants to try and cover it with some clear sealer, I can’t remember what it was but if it works I’ll post it. I think it was something Safe Coat.
Kane
Brenda, previous posts say AFM safe coat does not work and makes the surface shiny and if not applied correctly it will be bubbly
Lisa
Brenda, you should NOT have to sign a release for a simple refund on the paint you bought. That refund should be covered under the warranty. If they have worked out some kind of agreement to compensate you for further expenses if their paint was bad, THEN they will ask for a release – meaning they’re off the hook for further damages.
That’s fine if you get what you want. BUT – we were asked to sign a release after a few coats of primer seemed to get rid of the smell. But that was in October, when the smell tended to go away anyway. We refused to sign a release until the following season of warm weather, when we could be sure the primer had worked. Guess what? It didn’t work! And when we told PPG we wanted to wait to see if the primer would work, they got a little huffy, like it was a sure thing. But we knew better BECAUSE OF THIS SITE.
Now, it’s possible that if we ignored the smell from the primer, and started putting lots of layers of paint on, we might have been ok, Like Miss V. No way to know, because after two coats of paint it smelled worse than with just the primer, so at that point we’d had it AND there is a 2-year statute of limitations on a claim for property damage in our state – and that was only weeks away. In fact, I believe that statute of limitations was the reason the manufacturer simply continued to drag things out, saying they had to do this and that and talk to so-and-so and blah blah blah – stalling and figuring that we were too ignorant to figure things out. Well in many ways we were, and perhaps still are – but live and learn.
Kane – I appreciate that you are assisting us in this way. I’m glad you solved your problem.
Lisa
Brandie, I just asked to join your FB group “Friends Affected by Paint Fume Exposure” – I’m a little concerned that people will think it’s a group for people with chemical sensitivities. I know it’s wrong for me to criticize when I’ve done nothing similar myself, but I didn’t know if that’s what you meant for the page to be. Perhaps at some point when my own personal problems with this are behind me, I will put together something on “Lingering Paint Odor” or “Paint won’t stop smelling”. However, I sometime wonder if I want to devote any more of my life to this than I already have. This wasn’t meant to be my purpose in life. I thank you greatly for making that page. You’ve done us all a service. THANK YOU!
Anita
Brandie, thank you for starting the FB page. Would you consider a name change, like: “This Paint Stinks” or something similar so it will be easier for people to find and it might get more attention? Thanks Miss V. After reading your post, I can’t emphasize to everyone enough how important it is to contact the Fire Dept., (call 911) Health Dept., Poison Control, Attorney General, Justice Dept., Media Outlets etc.. and let them know you are being overwhelmed by suspicious fumes. Having to paint over 20 times is just a further indication that we are all dealing with a dangerous chemical contamination that should be handled by HAZMAT professionals not consumers who have been victimized. This is not MCS. Terrorist don’t just use bullets and bombs. In today’s society, we could all be the victims of a chemical attack. We were all warned of this possibility after 9-11.
LYNN
I just wanted to thank all of you for this invaluable information. I’m pursuing this from two angles, a contractor who painted the walls and claims the resultant paint odor is a problem between myself and the manufacturer.
I have a receipt stating the paint in my can is ‘unpleasant smelling and differs from new cans of same paint’…the mfg. asked me to bring them into the store and compare, before sending to the lab. Interestingly, they only tested for mold and bacteria stickwise, stating no need to test for VOC, formaldahyde, etc., as ‘it has no voc’s’, meaning they are squeezing through a loophole of very low voc contaminents which it does contain, and there can be many, so it can add up. There are other variables. I specifically asked for a receipt and when they both said it smelled bad, made faces actually, i asked them to put that on the receipt. Important.
A rep came from mfg., first said ‘just paint’, will go away in time, ‘like a new car’, then said ‘no more he could do’…same with corporate cust. svs…got through to top sales person of this area at corporate…said, we’ll be glad to paint over it for you’, point b eing it’s common knowledge you can’t get rid of paint odor by just painting, but we all know on this site it destroys the evidence.
My room is small and even putting up drywalls, etc…should cost no more than tops 4 or 5 thou. Told him that. He spouted ‘integrity, important to take responsibility if their problem…sent a rep…she first said ‘smells like new paint’, which it does as all say after 8 mos…then she walked out of room and denied there was any odor at all…
I could have taped her secretly in AZ…if you are in a state that allows that…do it…whether a store clerk, or mfg. or contractor, or anyone who might be a witness…people sadly, lie…and it is your only protection or way to get justice in a system which needs changing, and these mfgs. some of them, are corrupt. I’ve learned this the hard way.
I’m sharing this in hopes it will help someone in some way.
As for the contractor…so far, and i am still researching and pursuing this with little money, and they all know that, seems the contracctor association, even with a complaint, is law bound not to hold contractor responsible for any substances, like paint, he brings into the home…only for his actual work.
They claimed not to know where i can pursue that…suggesting a lawyer which, with so far no lawyers who work on contingent or probono in this area, and i’ve called everywhere, it can cost thousands. I got one free consult with a lawyer in a different area of law, who had no clue.
So far i cannot find a law on the books, and this is important, that protects the consumer, you and i, when we bring contaminated, hazardous, problematic i.e. ill-smelling or substandard, materials we purchase (or a contractor brings in)…
I have so far been told it is up to me to prove what is wrong with the paint (substance) and then i have to provide the proof in court…all of this can cost many thousands of dollars…and all the manufacturers and contractors have to do is sit back and wait.
MAIN POINT BEING: WHY ARE THERE NO LAWS ON THE BOOKS TO PROTECT CONSUMERS WHO PURCHASE DANGEROUS OR SUBSTANDARD PRODUCTS IN GOOD FAITH WHICH ARE BROUGHT INTO OUR HOMES AS MUTUALLY INTENDED AND FAIL, CAUSE PHYSICAL AND EMOTIONAL ISSUES (I AM NOT INCLUDING PEOPLE WITH EXTREME CHEMICAL ISSUES OR PSYCHOSIS…I SAY THIS BECAUSE IT CAN BE USED TO DISMISS A CASE LIKE THIS ONLY). I AM TALKING ABOUT AVERAGE FAMILIES…INCLUDING CHILDREN, ELDERLY, PETS…PARTICULARLY VULNERABLE.
States vary, but this should be a national issue re things like paint which is used EVERYWHERE.
Who is protecting us. Where do we get all the money. ..Lisa wrote they stall, and they do…they lie…i wanted to work this out fairly and amicably…not even sue for ddamages whiich i told them…they don’t care.
WE NEED THIS TO BE ADDRESSED…
Family, others entering my room said it hurt their throats, it smelled like new paint still, i cannot use my own home…all i did was hire someone to do remediation which was minor, and paint the room…and it has been devastating to my life, health and well being.
There are savvy people on line here with great, terrific info…let’s get it rolling…i’ll check out the new site which sounds great but we have to be careful, honest, about how we do this…if we claim chemical sensitivities when they are within normal range that is fine…those who have extreme ones can on an individual basis use this, i believe, to show that they have the right to expecdt low or no voc paint to be jsut that, but when excessive or problematic, the advertising was false and they have been harmed further…something like that.
Again thanks and any info, will post immediately…this site is a Godsend.
Lisa
Lynn makes excellent points.
What do we do?
I filed a small claims case when, after desperate attempts to work things out with the manufacturer, I got nowhere.
Go ahead and file a small claims case if your state allows recovery up to the amount you’re out. There are limits in each state. BUT – (and this is where the accumulated wisdom of this site comes in) YOU MUST HAVE EVIDENCE. That means: if the room is still as is, with the stinky paint on the wall, then you have evidence. But since a judge probably won’t want to travel to your home, you need someone there to testify that the room does smell, and that it’s the paint that smells. If you painted on new drywall, and you have some of the drywall still, and ihe drywall doesn’t smell – then you’ve pretty much proven it’s the paint.
Or perhaps like Lynn you have the paint in the can and it stinks (mine didn’t stink in the can). I don’t know how a judge can argue with a can full of stinky paint. In small claims, you only need a preponderance of evidence. Paint isn’t expected to smell after a period of weeks (usually a month at the longest) You can find on the product information online the “cure time” for your particular paint.
This is about defective products.
http://injury.findlaw.com/product-liability/what-is-product-liability.html
If a paint can is labelled “low odor”, but the paint actually stinks – then the product is defectively labelled and is considered in violation of strict liability.
“Marketing Defects – Flaws in the way a product is marketed, such as improper labeling, insufficient instructions, or inadequate safety warnings.”
“The doctrine known as “res ipsa loquitur” shifts the burden of proof in some product liability cases to the defendant(s). Translated, this Latin term means “the thing speaks for itself,” and indicates that the defect at issue would not exist unless someone was negligent. If the doctrine is successfully invoked, the plaintiff is no longer required to prove how the defendant was negligent; rather, the defendant is required to prove that it was not negligent.”
The manufacturers know about the problem but they put no warning on the paint cans or anywhere else. Then, when the problem occurs, they deny the evidence (they say there’s no smell)
So – this should only be a matter of proving that IT SMELLS, not that there is something chemically wrong with it. In fact, you will not be able to prove there’s something chemically wrong unless you get a very high-priced analytical lab that specializes in this sort of thing. Why? Because there are other cans of paint out there that will have the same components as yours, but which didn’t smell. And those are considered acceptable by the industry and the law.
We have rights that don’t depend on us having a lot of money. But they do depend on us knowing the law and who to turn to.
Lisa
Lynn, here is the site to file a complaint with the consumer dept in your state:
https://www.azag.gov/consumer/home
I was told by a lawyer that if I have a pending small claims case, the attorney general’s office will most likely wait to see what the outcome of that is, and wouldn’t be interested before that.
Lisa
If anyone is interested in trying to re-coup their losses due to stinky paint, they must be able to prove that the paint smells. It sounds so simple, but if you’ve already solved the problem then you might have lost your evidence. So that is why I say: before you prime or remove drywall, or both – have someone from the company come and smell the problem, and get something signed from that rep that says that the room smells, the paint smells, etc. Don’t just assume that if they come and smell it that they won’t later deny the problem. These companies know there’s a lot of money at stake. So far they’ve been dealing with this successfully by denying it and by making people sign releases after they give them some amount of money as reimbursement, whether or not the problem is gone, Tell them you need to wait a while to make sure. My problem came back, even after I told them the primer had worked. I hadn’t signed a release yet BECAUSE PEOPLE ON THIS SITE HAD TOLD ME THAT PRIMER DOESN’T ALWAYS WORK PERMANENTLY. If I hadn’t known that, I would have signed the release, and I wouldn’t still be able to try to get any further reimbursement. As i’ve said, I still dont’ know if I will be able to, but I wouldn’t have been able to even try.
When you call the manufacturer, or go to the store where you bought the paint, you are no longer an ignorant customer. YOU KNOW THAT THIS IS A REAL PROBLEM THAT MANY HAVE DEALT WITH. So when you hear “never heard of this” or “we have no reports” or ” we can do nothing unless there’s a batch problem” etc etc etc – you know that the person you’re talking to is either ignorant or lying. There’s no crime in being ignorant, but if you’re a representative for a big paint company you certainly shouldn’t be ignorant. And if you’re lying – well – since you’re lying about a defective product – that’s a different story.
So, it’s either ignorance or a lie. Don’t accept either one. If your small claims court will allow you to sue for the amount you need, then go ahead and sue. But try to work it out with the company first if you’re at that point. Get professional estimates from remediation experts and send them to the company and tell them you expect reimbursement because it was their paint that caused the smell. Tell them you need someone from their company to come and verify otherwise if they’re not going to pay for it. Make the expert and the paint company talk to each other. (that’s what I would have done if I could do this all over) Otherwise it’s just your word against the paint company and they’ll say they didn’t smell anything (unless you got it in writing and signed)
If the paint company sees you’ve got evidence they can’t deny, perhaps they will settle with you and you won’t have to go to court.
I’m afraid these companies may be “circling the wagons” now that consumers are becoming more aware. Don’t expect them to take responsibility for this as they should. It’s too easy for them to blame us or pretend it’s not happening.
WilliamE3
I read this site a year ago, and just read it again now: it’s tripled in size. Great group. Kane, thanks for your knowledgeable contributions. I have my own story and am only half way through my problem.
Let me start by asking:
1. Is the Concrete and Masonry paint toxic? Chemically unsafe? I see a California state warning.
2. Epoxy based paints: anyone tried them, and are they safe for interior use?
3. Has anyone used Odoban Odor Eliminator as a preliminary step?
Thanks,
William3
Kane
William, masonry concrete primer is latex based and has a slight odor (all primers have some sort of odor) but much less than oil and certaintly less toxic than contaminated paint many of us have had to deal with. If you want to take a chance with it, I strongly suggest you test it on a piece of wood or ideally small piece of drywall if you have. California in general has strict standards for many things and set the standard for CARB2 (formaldehyde emission in flooring and furniture)standard.
Kane
For those on the fence about trying Kilz Max, I looked into it. Here is PDF
http://www.kilz.com/MCContent/MC_Product/KILZ_CA/KILZ_CE_TDS/MAX_CE_TDS.pdf
On it states: • Sealing odours: For persistent odours, apply
a second coat of primer before topcoating. If
odour continues, a longer dry time is needed
before topcoating
Michelle
I’m torn between trying encapsulation and ripping out the drywall. It seems those that had success with encapsulation tried a number of different primers and paints with something like 20 coats applied. I actually prefer to rip out the drywall but I’m held up trying to find someone to redo the tile around the tub/shower. The benefit of trying the encapsulation is if Kane’s concrete masonry primer works the first time then there is an easy soln if this ever happens again. If the only solution really is ripping out the drywall then I’m stuck with my current colors because I won’t ever paint again.
Kane
Michelle, some have asked if the masonry/concrete primer I used held up during the heat. Well I moved late Spring so can’t confirm if it did. It seems the proven methods here are Kilz Oil by Brandie and Kilz Max which is latex by Miss V. My personal suggestion is if your bathroom is a half bath, has a ventilation fan, and you can do without it for 2 weeks, go with oil over the exposed drywall. Leave the tiles cause that’s costly.
Kane
Michelle, oops just re-read your post and see that it has a tub. Perhaps try Kilz on a small portion of the wall. If you choose to go with oil, there are quart containers that sell for $10 or less at all hardware and big box stores. If you choose to go with the Kilz Max, it sells for $35 but make sure you ask it be shaken.
Brenda
Updating my situation. My husband is insistent not to tear out Sheetrock AGAIN, so he wanted to try the a AFM Safecoat. Put the first coat on this morning. Smell seemed worse to me. Just put the second coat on tonight, not as smelly as first coat. Putting a third coat tomorrow.
Time will tell. Will keep you posted.
Michelle
Brenda,
Definitely let us know. I feel so bad for you that you already replaced the drywall and are still having a problem. Do you think it was the second batch of paint you used?
Kane
I’m dying to put something on because we can do that ourselves. However I really think tearing out the drywall is the right soln for us. We chose zero VOC paint because we didn’t want out gassing toxic substances in the house and the oil primers and others are supposed to out gas for years.
Once the drywall is replaced I am thinking of using a paint called Cabinet Coat that I used on our trim. It did not have a smell and is different enough from zero voc wall paint so as not to be involved in this mess. However the product sheet says not to use as a whole house wall paint. Not sure why that is.
linda
Michelle,
When you do the dry wall consider doing the insulation as well as this is probably contaminated also, our was.
Linda
Brenda
Yes the second batch of paint was bad, totally different brand but similar color which makes me think it’s the tint.
Husband is doing the 3rd coat of Safecoat now, I hope it works to save us the hard work ofvtearingbitboyt and the expense of new drywall again but at the same time I don’t know if I’ll trust it and feel safe. ?
I’ll keep you posted.
Michelle
Thanks Linda, I will look at that.
Kane
Michelle, I believe Cabinet Coat is made specifically for cabinets and trims mostly because it is harder and shinier. Not sure if you would want that same type of shine on your drywall but that’s up to you. Whatever you choose for your walls, I highly recommend you try a small area first to see how it works. The paints might not smell on wood trims but may smell on drywall that has bad paint.
As far as zero VOC paint vs oil, all paints outgas for many years regardless if you can smell it or not. Offgas time depends on the type of paint and material it’s applied on. You can google it.
Michelle
Thanks Kane,
I’ve got Cabinet Coat on my trim now. It is sort of soft shiny. Like an an eggshell or satin. Since this is in a bathroom where semigloss is sometimes used I think it will fit right in. One of my other baths I used a BM semigloss and that is shiny! I’m just not sure why they say in the spec. sheet not for whole house wall use. Maybe it doesn’t spread well for horizontal wall application or it dries too fast and leaves streaks.
Pam
Kane…we’re about to try your Loxon method. Did you do one coat of Loxon? How long did you wait before painting with Harmony? Does your room still smell fine?
We painted our plaster walls in early April, using Kilz primer, followed by 2 coats of Sherwin Williams Emerald. At first everything seemed fine, but after a few days we had this sour smell, which started making me sick. Sherwin Williams did step up and send someone to seal with Shellac followed by painting with their Harmony paint. It was fine initially. Our weather was dry and pleasant and the problem seemed fixed. It’s been 10 days now and we had to close up the house to turn on the air conditioning, and the smell is back just as bad as before. I am so frustrated!
Kane
Pam, Loxon seemed to work up until I moved late May. I used one coat and let it dry and cure for a week before applying Harmony. I avoided issues with colorants by sticking to the base white color so only 1 coat over Loxon.
Sounds like the painters may have painted shortly after the shellac. I’ve talked to painters that painted over shellac in as little as an hour (when time was an issue) to as much as a week (for full cure) .
A woman here posted she put on 5-6 layers of shellac over the course of months and the odor issue would return in the heat. She ended up tearing down the walls.
Whatever you try next, I suggest doing a small area first using fresh rollers during optimal weather (warm to hot and low humidity), lots of ventilation. Good luck!
William E3
Kane –
The Sherwin Williams site has 9 different types of Loxon. Which one did you use, or recommend?
Thanks
Pam
Kane – Thank you for the quick response. Since it’s hot and humid here, we won’t be tackling this project for a while. But I’ll update after we do. I’m also thinking it might make sense to wait until a month after the last painting in order to be sure that is fully cured.
Brenda
Pam, I painted with SW Harmony and it smelled worse after a few days of painting,miss been almost 4 months now and still smells. It also changes with the weather. So far we put 4 coats of AFM Safecoat, a sealer, but it hasn’t helped much.
This is our second time of this happening so we will never paint again.
Kane
OK Pam good luck. The white base Harmony I used had a bit of a scented candle odor for a few weeks. 30 days for full cure on it. What color was your original paint job and what color was your Harmony?
Pam
Original paint was Alabaster, purchased on sale at their store. Before the smell manifested itself, but after the sale was over, we painted the living room, dining room and kitchen Alabaster as well with no problem. Those cans of paint were Sherwin Williams Infinity from Lowe’s