Getting rid of paint smell
Today’s question comes from Aaren. Aaren asks:
Hi hope you can help! My daughter’s room will not stop smelling. In fact, I challenged Olympic Paint and Lowe’s – going back and forth until we settled. KILZ and another coat of paint reproduced the original smell! Olympic even paid a professional to do all that work for us. The second coat of Premium One water based latex interior paint still smells. We have 2 air purifiers and had our windows opens for a week while painting and for 12 days afterward. …. As of today however we are dealing with a smell from Friday. It’s awful and I’m afraid to let my daughter sleep in there (although she has for two nights). WHAT can I do to make it go away. The room seems like it’s cursed. No other room in our house ever smelled like this… Please help with ideas of what to do. How long is this supposed to last. The smell is like a sweet, clay smell. It doesn’t really smell like paint at all. We even crawled into the attic to check for smell and it wasn’t present. We tried sprays, onions, vinegar, steam cleaning. Everything. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Aaren
To be honest I personally have never experienced prolonged smelling after painting a room. Usually something like that might happen if there is excessive moisture which makes the paint dry slower and may contribute to the paint smelling. To try to get rid of the smell I would put a container with some coffee in it. If it doesn’t remove the smell at least will enhance the air a bit.
Anita
Here is some interesting reading: Home Depot Pays $8M To Ditch High-VOC Paint Suit
Brenda
Anita can you post the link?
Anita
Brenda if you paste the title in the Google search box, you should see the article. How do you feel since the drywall has been removed? How is your breathing and the taste in your mouth? What color paint did you use? I used white. Whatever the color, paint brand, surface painted, odor of the fumes, or whether a professional painted or not, etc.. One thing we all have in common is that our homes were perfectly fine until these defective paints!
Brenda
Anita, it is such a huge relief to have the smell gone. Once the walls were removed it took about 4 days of airing out and the smell was all gone! My breathing is much better and the bad metallic taste disappeared as soon as the smell was gone.
We haven’t repainted yet and I am nervous to do it but we did buy paint and primer from Sherwin Williams, we bought the Harmony line, an off white. We smelled both cans and no Oder from the cans but we will test the paint on a spare piece of drywall before we paint. We had the new drywall put up yesterday and is being taped today. So next will be the second mud coat tomorrow and the sanding. Then I need to clean my whole house. We are living in the basement while all this is going on. I was in the trailer but now that my lungs are better and smell is gone it’s warmer in our finished basement than the trailer. It’s snowing out today ?
We won’t paint until the night temps are above 50 and a sunny day so that could take a while!
Yes we all have this bizarre paint issue in common and I am very grateful I found this site! I wish everyone good luck with resolving your issues with it. It is a nightmare!
Lisa
Brenda, Did you ever hear back from PPG? I’m sure we’re all glad you were made knowledgeable by this site, and that you could afford to remove the affected drywall and move on to getting your life back to normal.
But this situation will never change unless we all continue to try to hold the manufacturers responsible. I hope that once you feel able, you will demand some kind of response from PPG. It’s doubtful you’ll get one that is fair, prompt or helpful (no one has so far that we know of) but it’s very important that these companies not be able to continue to say that they have no knowledge of this issue.
Write the company a letter telling them what happened. Include your costs and tell them that you expect to be reimbursed. If they don’t reimburse you, I think you ought to file a small claims case. It will be one more mark against them – and one more public airing of their guilt. Gather your receipts and testimony, go to your local court clerk and fill out the papers. Just like calling in these problems to the health department and CSPC, suing for your costs will help bring home the issue.
Brenda
Lisa
We received a check in the mail for the $55.00 worth of paint we used. Husband wrote on the check that it covered bad paint but didn’t cover the damages due to bad paint. He sent them quote on damages. Probably won’t hear back from them.
Can’t deal with lawsuit right now.
Lisa
Brenda, thanks for your reply. I’m glad your husband sent them a quote on damages. That is a good first step. Let us know how things go in the future if you feel able. Perhaps your husband will be interested in filing a claim if the company doesn’t reimburse his damages. It’s very easy to file a claim, although of course it takes time to prosecute your claim. But, in this case it can be as simple as submitting your damages (if PPG doesn’t reimburse you). Then, win or lose – the case is heard and PPG has one more tick against them for selling stinky paint. You don’t need to have a lawyer for a small claims case.
I certainly understand that you’re not able to deal with anything at all at this point, having myself gone through many months of stink and many attempts to fix the stink myself. And of course, anything I write here is non-specific with regard to persons involved. I would advise the same for anyone.
Again, I thank you for your comments. And I thank you for anything you’re willing and able to do to help fight this in general for all concerned. But you must take care of yourself.
I wish you well, and good health!
Brenda
Lisa, thanks to you for all your info and support to everyone on this blog. I plan on keeping in touch on this blog and hopefully some day see PPG finally get what they deserve.
Anita
Brenda (or anyone else out there sickened by these paint fumes), did you call Poison Control and tell them you were sickened by paint fumes? If so, what was their response?
John
In order to prove that the paint is the problem, keep some of the drywall instead of throwing it out, and put it into a sealed container. Call it Pandora’s Box. You can have people take a whiff at any time, asking them their opinion on what it smells like. It’ll be hard for the paint-company representative to deny an odor if it’s built up strong in the container. Then again, will it build up in the sealed container, that is a question? If it doesn’t, it may be a bacteria problem, in that it needs humidity from the air to increase the odor. If it’s a chemical problem, it should have odor whether in a sealed or unsealed volume of space.
Get a second container for doing a test, and use bleach to destroy the bacteria on the paint, in case that’s the problem. Wipe the bleach off as best you can with water, then seal the dried piece of drywall in the container. If it still smells after the bacteria is wiped dead, then it’s likely a chemical problem. If the smell disappears, it tends to prove that the problem had been bacterial.
Next, go back to the company where the paint was purchased, buy a quart of the same paint and color, and re-do the test. If it smells again, it could be a color pigment that’s causing the problem. Buy another quart of the same paint, but with an “opposite” color. If the original was dark red, buy a light blue one with little or no red and darkening pigments. Re-do the test. Once you know or have a better idea on what the cause is, you can deal with the issue better, and announce the results.
If the test results in no odors using the same paint and color that was originally the problem, try freezing the paint, the doing the test that way. If neither freezing nor the purchase of another volume of paint results in odors, Pandora wins. The mystery only grows.
Brenda
John that’s great advice, thanks for posting step by step. Will be interesting to hear of any outcomes.
We just primed our new drywall in bedroom. Used Sherwin Williams Harmony, was nervous to do it as it had a smell to it but luckily once dried by the next day it was gone. Phew.
Now we will paint with a color similar to what the bad paint was, also using Harmony and opened it up it didn’t smell bad. We had done test samples on spare drywall.
Husband opened the can of left over bad paint just to check it out, it was covered with a slimy light green mold, it was only a month old!
Jean
I’m so sad to be on this forum because I too am going through this problem for my infant daughter’s room. We painted it with Pittsburgh Paint Grand Distinction back at the end of January and it still smells like paint when we have the windows and doors closed. Last month I called Pittsburgh Paint and the tech guy told me that sometimes it just takes long for paint to cure and to leave the windows open. I told him that I’ve had the windows open for 2 months and he said that the only thing he can do is give us our money back. Very unapologetic to say the least.
We’ve tried candles, onions, coffee, lemon, vinegar and tried baking the room with our space heater on its highest setting and right now I have a bag of Moso bamboo charcoal laying in the middle of the room. It totally stinks that we cannot use this room and my daughter’s crib is squeezed into our guest bedroom/office for the time being.
Can anyone tell me approx how much it cost to replace the drywall? That would be our last resort and am afraid to know the costs. I would say the room is about 120 sq ft.
Brenda
Jean welcome to our nightmare! Sorry to say but it seems the only thing that gets rid of it is tearing out the drywall which we did. It cost us 850.00 to redo it, we had a friend who is a drywall contractor do it.
We’ve since primed and painted with Sherwin Williams Harmony. We tested on a small piece of drywall first and seemed ok. Now that the walls are repainted with the new primer and paint, the original paint was Olympic One Coat from Lowes, it seems the new paint after a week still has that freshly painted smell ?
My husband says he can’t smell it but I sure do. At least it doesn’t smell bad like the last paint, that was like gas fumes and sent me to the ER as I have asthma.
I’m thinking of making our master bedroom in the guest room. It’s been such a nightmare, the bad paint started to smell up the whole house. I was living in out camper which my husband just sold so am living in our basement for now as we still need to redo all the molding in the bedroom.
I’ve had a few friends who have painted and no problems, it’s very strange. Im leaning towards the colorant being bad.
I’d be curious to take a poll with everyone here as to what color everyone used. Mine was called heavy cream an off white with yellow tone. I picked a similar color when repainted, should have gone with something without yellow.
I’ll never paint again!
Brenda
Anita I didn’t call poison control, didn’t think of it ?
Lisa
It’s with sadness that i see new-comers to this site, which tells us that the problem is ongoing, and that the public at large is still unaware.
Hang in there.
The paint manufacturers are aware of this problem. Look up the Paint Research Association (PRA) and you will likely find that your paint company is a member. Look up “wall odor phenomenon” and you will see that the PRA says that it’s been plaguing the paint industry for some years and has increased with newer requirements for low VOC paints.
Be sure to report to the paint company.
They will be sure to tell you that they haven’t heard of the problem and there are no problems with your batch, and if it’s not a batch problem, then it’s not THEIR problem.
They will agree to test your paint, which you may not have. And for sure you can bet there was no warning on your paint can that said: “keep your paint cans, or keep a sample of the paint and write down your batch numbers, because 1 in X number of cans will end up stinking through no fault of your own”
And why isn’t there a warning on the paint can? Because right now the industry prefers to pretend that it doesn’t know why your paint stinks, that it can’t possibly be anything wrong with the paint or the way it was tinted or retailed. And that they’re simply not responsible because “look how many people use it with no problem!”
Don’t be duped. These global corporations are fully aware of this problem, but right now no one is enforcing our rights as consumers – because smell is objective, it has many causes, and can possibly be remedied in different ways.
Please come back some day, regardless of how and when you fix your problem. Eventually this will out.
PS to above poster: I suspect that in my case the problem was due to colorant. But, no way to know. When you paint your walls, you don’t think: I’d better keep a sample for analysis in case this room still stinks a year from now. And you don’t start a savings account to pay for that analysis years ahead of deciding to paint your walls.
Brenda
Lisa I agree I think my issue is also the colorant and stupidly I choose a similar color with SE to repaint. It didn’t smell bad when opened and tested a small piece of drywall which seemed ok so painted a week and half ago. Room smells like the fresh clay like smell.
So far it hasn’t changed to the noxious odor but last time it took a little over a week to change. I feel sick!
Someone mentioned here that they used SW and it took two weeks to stop smelling I pray that will happen. How can it happen again!!?! We did everything right. ?
Lisa
Brenda, I wish I could help. All I can say is that if you decide you want to sue the paint company, you’ll need to force them to witness each step and you’ll need to get independent verification of the problem, along with expert recommendations for how to fix it, which you’ll then need to update the paint company on as you take each step, so that they can’t come back and say “it wasn’t our paint” or “it was something you did” or “you’re not an expert so how can you know there was something wrong with our paint” or “your remediation was overkill, the primer should have fixed it” etc etc etc
Kane
Brenda, when I used SW Harmony I chose to go with the base color of Extra White (no colorant). I didn’t want to take any chances! I had a faint paint mixed with scented candle odor that lasted about a week or so. Is your room empty? In my case, a lot of my furniture absorbed the bad odor and was thrown out. Mostly particleboard stuff from Ikea which I had planned to replace anyway.
Brenda
Kane luckily we moved everything out of the room.
So you are saying you painted with SW Harmony after the bad paint experience or was the bad paint SW?
This whole thing is just to bizarre. We’ve spent a fortune and hard work to rip out the walls replace them and repaint to more smells which so far isn’t as bad as the first time but it took a while for it to get bad last time. I’m terrified.
It just doesn’t make sense, I’ve had friends paint with no issues using brands listed on this blog. What are the odds of having it happen twice? We waited to paint on dry sunny days. Let the coats dry a few days apart. I just don’t get it.
Al
Had problems with SW Harmony
, and other sw paints. My cousin use sw a few years ago it was fine, so its a hit or miss. Im not a expert but if I could do over again I would use an eco or non toxic healthy greenenvironment paint, give it at leasts thirty days, what are your symptoms? You could be having an allergic reaction to the poison.
Brenda
Al I used Harmony SW as I was told by a remediation company that they use it for sensitive people and to cover smells from smoke damage, etc. so I thought it would be ok. I haven’t been sleeping in the room, living in our finished basement and have been taking prednisone inhaler so lungs have been ok so far. I ended up in ER when we first painted with Olympic which turned noxious like gas fumes. So far the Harmony smells like fresh wet paint. Am so hoping that will disapate. Someone here mentioned they use that paint and it cleared up in two weeks, I’m praying!
Kane
Brenda, Benjamin Moore was the offending paint. SW was the fix. During the time my odor was around, it permeated many belongings. Did you let the drywall and mud heal before priming and painting?
Brenda
I’m so depressed!!!! Bedroom still smells like fresh claylike paint after ripping out noxious walls and resheet rocking. Painted SW Harmony second time round, it’s been almost two weeks now and it’s not getting better. So tired of living in the basement with clothes everywhere, that’s been since early March. I just want my house back. Can’t start over again ? what to do????
Lisa
Brenda, we dealt with this issue in our home for two years, conservatively trying to cover and kill the smell with successive coats of primer before we finally replaced the drywall ( which had been in the house since it was built, and had nothing wrong with it) We never did find the courage to paint the room again, and it exists now, 6 months later, with just a couple of coats of primer.
At this point, you aren’t able to tell whether the smell is coming from your paint, your new drywall, the mud, etc.
I would suggest that you get an expert in there to test the air to see what it is you’re smelling, and then try to tie the smell to the cause. If it’s the paint again, i would insistently involve the manufacturer. Let the expert and the manufacturer communicate. Get names and signatures at each step. And, most unfortunately, try to find a way to make peace with where you’re at right now because no matter what, you’re not going to be able to solve this in a day.
Perhaps the masonry primer might help you. But regardless, I’d get it examined first – because if the masonry primer doesn’t work, you’ll have covered the evidence that it might have been the paint.
People, make the manufacturers sniff the stink. Don’t let them off the hook until they agree it stinks. Use independent parties to assess / analyze the smell / cause – otherwise the paint company will say you don’t have the expertise to determine there’s something wrong with their paint. THE STINK IS THE DEFECT. The only way to prove the stink is to have people smell it.
My heart goes out to you – I feel your pain. Protect your health and peace of mind as best you can.
Brenda
Lisa thanks for your advice and emotional support. I’ve been depressed about the whole thing I haven’t done anything yet. Just keeping the room closed to the rest of the house and ignoring it. We’ve been working long and hard building a retaining wall and having to moved all my garden flowers so no energy to deal with our continuing nightmares in the bedroom. I still can’t believe we went thru all the hard work and money to gut the room from the first paint job that went toxic. I didn’t want to paint but husband said what are the odds of happening again. We primed the walls after letting the new Sheetrock/mud dry for over a week. The primer once dry had the same claylike smell the paint has and we let the room sit for a week after priming. I found that odd the primer smelled too. So had nothing to loose at that point and painted. Guess the odds are damn good!
The smell hasn’t gone toxic as I call it when you can’t even walk in the room it’s so strong but it still stinks like wet paint and goes into the rest of the house if door is left open. I don’t know what we will do. ?
Lisa
Brenda – I so wish I could help. I personally don’t think paint should smell more than a week or so at the most. We’ve painted many rooms in our house, and used low VOC paints with no problem. When there was no problem, there was literally no smell. But there’s no mistaking the stink of “ghost odor” – and it has been described in many different ways, including clay smell. Again, I would report it to the company, make a rep come out and get a report. You applied to new drywall, so unless there’s something wrong with the drywall or the mud, it’s got to be the paint. Have you considered the masonry primer recommended by someone above? If I hadn’t already removed the drywall I probably would have tried that before doing so. I didn’t hear about that possibility until after it was out.
Brenda
Lisa we will probably try the masonry paint before tearing out the walls again. I’m hoping to get the manufacturer to pay for it but we all know how that goes!
If it does come to tearing out the walls again I don’t want to Sheetrock again as it would need to be at least primed and our SW primer had a claylike smell that didn’t go away after a week so I think I would put up the beadboard paneling and stain it outside before putting it up. Costly for sure but don’t know any other solutions as I will never paint again!
Kane
Brenda, found this info from another site regarding proper dry times for drywall mud: Drying Times
Joint compound should generally be allowed to dry for 24 hours between coats and before sanding, painting or priming. High humidity levels and warm temperatures both increase drying times, however. In a room that is 70 degrees Fahrenheit, for example, joint compound can take approximately 12 days to fully dry at 98 percent humidity. Cold weather also increases drying time, and joint compound should not be used at temperatures below 55 degrees Fahrenheit. Ideal conditions are temperatures between 65 and 80 degrees Fahrenheit with a humidity level between 20 percent and 40 percent.
I hope you followed those guidelines but you did say it is rather cool where you are.
Brenda
Kane we had good weather when the new drywall was put in as it had warmed and dried up and we waited quite a while before painting. We primed on a sunny dry day in the high 60’s and waited a week to paint the buff color. Also painted on a sunny dry warm day in the 70’s. The first time we painted the old drywall was on a cold humid day, we did turn the heat up while cracking the windows for ventilation.
At least so far the second time round hasn’t turned noxious, yet. Just the wet paint smell that sometimes seems to be going away then other times seems stronger than ever. It’s really quite bizarre!
A friend of mine painted her hallway 3 weeks ago and had told me it went well, no smell issues. She went away on vacation for a week, just got back and told me her house smelled like it was just painted.
Jean
So. I go to the store to buy BIN and I see the regular white shellac based primer and the clear synthetic shellac primer SPECIFICALLY for blocking odors. So one would assume that the odor blocking one is better. BUT i’m seeing on this forum that regular shellac works better than the synthetic kind? I’m confused. Which one should I get?
Lisa
Jean, there’s no guarantee that either one will work. In fact, I used both the synthetic and the shellac successively and it didn’t work. Some have said that masonry primer will work. I don’t know. Good luck.
Jean
What is the difference? What exactly is synthetic shellac?
Lisa
Here’s the details on synthetic BIN:
https://www.rustoleum.com/~/media/DigitalEncyclopedia/Documents/RustoleumUSA/TDS/English/CBG/Zinsser/BIN-01_Advanced_Synthetic_Shellac_Primer_TDS.ashx
Real shellac is made with resin secreted from bugs.
For the purposes of trying to get rid of the smell, I don’t think it makes much difference. However, as I said – neither one and both together still didn’t work for me. If you haven’t covered the stinky paint yet, I’d make sure to get some third party in there first to advise you. And make sure you get a rep from the company in to tell you what they think. If I had to go through this all over again, I wouldn’t bother with the BIN – I’d try the masonry primer that’s been recommended here. I was unaware of it – the paint company told me nothing except “we’ve never heard of this problem”. The thing is, there’s some anecdotal evidence that the masonry primer doesn’t work all the time either.
Brenda
So in essence nothing really works to cover the smell!?! And I am looking at tearing out the Sheetrock again ? which my husband refuses to do understandably as we spent a small fortune already on that room so I am looking at becoming a full time basement dweller ?
Lisa do you know who manufactures SW? Is it PPG?? I’m off to my pulmonary doctor and stopping at SW on my way home to put in my complaint and will call manufacturer when I find out who they are and insist someone come to my house to smell it! And then I’m threatening them with a lawsuit.
Lisa
Brenda, I didn’t say you’ll have to rip out the sheetrock again. I just said that BIN didn’t work for me, and there are others for whom it hasn’t worked either. I think I’ve also said that the masonry primer has been suggested by some – and I don’t know if that works or not because I didn’t know it was a potential fix until after I’d removed the drywall. BIN and masonry primer aren’t the same thing.
In some cases I do think it’s possible that a paint might just take longer to dry, but not forever. And if the smell started AFTER the paint was on the walls, then I’m guessing it’s probably not just regular paint smell but something more. I’m not an expert in this – just a person like you who ended up with stinky paint on her walls. All I can tell you is my own experience. We proceeded cautiously. Even though I’d seen that others had ended up ripping out their drywall, there was no way I was going to do that. We ended up there because after two years and many attempts to cover the smell, we felt we had no further options. Again, we weren’t told anything by the paint company, and we didn’t know about this phenomenon or the masonry primer.
I think one of the reasons the paint companies are trying so hard to deny this problem is because they really don’t know how to fix it. They should be standing by their customers but instead they’re just blaming them.
For me, I wouldn’t rip out the drywall without trying to just fix the smell. We tried BIN – it didn’t work. We even tried going ahead and painting even though the BIN still smelled – on one painter’s advice. The point is, there’s no GUARANTEE. So, I would definitely try a new primer, but I would make sure that the paint company was behind you – otherwise if it doesn’t work they’re going to simply deny responsibility. Personally, if I had to go through it again I’d try the masonry primer. But if you want to try the BIN, go ahead. I’m just telling you it didn’t work for us. And regardless of what you do, I’d get the paint company and some remediation experts in there – because if it ends up costing you a lot of money, I think they’ll be more likely to help you if you insist that they get involved, smell the problem, acknowledge it, and give you their own advice. Hopefully you will have more success with that then I have had to date. The paint companies are working very hard to maintain their “hear no evil, see no evil, smell no evil” stance.
Sherwin Williams is just Sherwin Williams. They have their own retail outlets.
Lynne
Brenda and All…it’s extremely important that you do not try and cover up the odor or whatever other problem with the paint when it behaves out of the ordinary as you will then not have any evidence should you need to pursue it in court…or perhaps mediation. There is some excellent advice on this on this website as without this evidence, it is very difficult to prove that the problem originated with the paint. Also, you can find a lab familiar with paint and perhaps test for mold, etc…or, as Lisa suggested, do an air test in the room, particularly when you have experienced physical symptoms. That is evidence as well.
My paint company tested the paint only for mold and bacteria, stating it was unnecessary to test for voc’s in zero voc paint. We all know, and evidence is on line and elsewhere, that there is no such thing, and there are variances with the manufacture of paint with each batch to deal with hazardous components or unforeseen bacteria, mold, and reactions of the complex ingredients to each other. Which is why so many of us are experiencing this problem. Paint companies,. and the industry, lawyers, etc., know all about it but it’s like Flint meaning they are all busy elsewhere and only glance this way occasionally which is why we have to somehow get their, all of their, attention. Millions of homes worldwide use paint, and even with a 5 % quotient of paint going bad which sounds right, when you add also the family count when applied in homes and the toxicity and danger to children, elderly and everyone, this is a serious, major problem. Most don’t know of these websites. I accidentally found it, so many are out there. Important, as you are doing, Brenda, to document everything and sounds to me like you may have a strong case down the line although I hope you don’t have to go there.
My company, Dunn Edwards, had the rep come and he said he smelled the paint odor but it would go away six months ago…then walked away and said ‘there was nothing more they could do.’ Recently a main person at corporate said he would be willing to paint the room again at no charge, but we all know that would have removed evidence and there was very little chance it would solve the problem…no need to check for voc’s with a zero voc he said. Not true. He sent a local person here and she said she did not smell anything…there was no odor. In other words, lied. Still, get your reps to come and document it…may work…if not, you have the evidence but the odor needs to be proven through tests to back you up in court, and hopefully you can be reimbursed and perhaps, if appropriate, get damages for the hell you, and I, are going through. Keep the faith and let’s all remember there are a lot of us and the word needs to get out. In the meanwhile, each of our cases can help another of us if we share what’s comfortable and safe…especially if we win.
Brandie
The above is some very good advice. I messed up when I painted over the original odor; however, I did save my own sample.
I would like to share that I found a great paint company called Ecos Paint. They are non toxic and no VOC. the problem with other commercial paints I believe is they NEVER cure.
Ecos will cure and they also sell a line called Air pure paint that will supposedly remove VOC in the air.
I hope this helps somebody.
I have been reading this thread off and on for months. I’m glad that I’m not crazy and people really do have these problems. I think my bad painting experience is akin to PTSD and truly believe is the reason I now suffer MCS.
Brenda
Brandie how did you resolve your bad paint problem?
Michelle
Wow! We painted our bathroom some time ago (6 mths, a year or something like that – it has been a long time). The first paint I used was Behr zero VOC. It stunk so bad that I painted over it with Lowes Olympic Icon. Since then the bathroom has had a constant chemical paint smell. I did not keep the can of Behr, it smelled so strong I didn’t want to accidentally use it again. I just went and sniffed the can of icon and did not smell anything on the paint that has cured on the outside so I think it was the Behr zero VOC.
I read on another site that bombing the room with chlorine dioxide. Has anyone tried this and did it have a good or bad effect?
Brenda
Michelle what are some of the other sites you found? Are you still living with the smell after a year?
Michelle
Yes. I’ve had it for a long time. I looked on my can of paint and I painted 6/20/2015. We used it in our guest bath so the relative square footage for the house is fairly small. But every time I went in there I could smell it. So I recently closed it up to see how strong it got and it got very strong which means it has been out gassing into the rest of the house all this time. I then did a search on the internet and found this site along with some other random posts (blogs etc.) where people had the same problem.
As near as I can tell this is a problem that has occurred across brands and across years. The common denominator appears to be low or zero VOC paint. I always use zero VOC paint and have never had this problem. The difference this time was that the can of Behr zero VOC had a very strong paint odor right from the start. I had never used Behr before so just assumed this was normal but I don’t recall ever having such a strong odor on the other brands of zero VOC I have used (BM, SW, Olympic, FreshAire). I had wanted to repaint some other parts of my house but now I am very hesitant as if this happened in larger or more commonly used room it would be a huge problem.
One blog post I read used chlorine dioxide. I looked it up and it appears to be an antimicrobial agent and when released in it’s gas form penetrates and kills. I ordered a product from Amazon called Room Shocker. This site was very helpful because I was leaning toward just trying to seal it in but people have tried that without much success. Also the ongoing nature of the problem, after reading all these posts, leads me to believe that maybe there is some bacteria growing in the paint that is releasing this odor. Otherwise I would think it would be dissipated by now.
I will report back if it works.
http://www.amazon.com/Biocide-Systems-3220-Shocker-Eliminator/dp/B00B3XUBES/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1462113541&sr=8-10&keywords=chlorine+dioxide
Were going to seal up the bathroom with plastic and tape but we still may leave the house when we do this over night. Luckily we have an RV we can sleep in.
Brandie
Brenda, I think to a certain extent I will always have in mind the room has an odor. We lived with it so long.
After 6+ months, the odor is not there. I have drove family crazy asking them to sniff the room every time they come over.
The air purifier I purchased really helps my peace of mind.
We sanded the walls, tore off the baseboards and repainted with Kilz Oil Primer. I would not recommend this route if you are air sensitive, MCS, have elderly living with you &/or kids and you are not able to get out of the house for several days &/or cannot get proper respirators to paint &/or cannot keep your windows open for several days to a week or more. I think I’m some states you can’t even buy this.
What worked for us may not work for you. I would suggest a professional come assess your situation to see if this is appropriate for you.
This whole experience has been a disaster. I have spent at least $1000 or more in hotel bills and replaced flooring etc.
I am convinced it was SW Ovation that caused this initial issue. I will never buy any paint other than Ecos again.
Brenda
Michelle you said you sanded the walls, what were your walls made of? Can you sand drywall?
We’ve spent 1,000.00 redoing the first paint disaster with the gas like fumes Olympic paint and now we are on our second disaster after putting up new Sheetrock now we have the sour claylike smell we used SW Harmony. I have asthma and the gas fumes sent me to the hospital. A total nightmare! Still living in the basement.
Kane
Brenda, you may be experiencing cross contamination. Odor from your original smelly walls got onto your possessions (furniture, clothes, etc). The contaminated clothes and furniture may be permeating into your new walls. Clothes and Ikea type furniture made of particleboard hold odors. Ikea furniture itself on a good day in any home offgasses. I disposed of all my old Ikea furniture which help my indoor air quality a lot. Give it more time. Latex paint takes up to 30 days to cure.
Brenda
Kane the room is totally empty and all the Sheetrock is new so the smell is from the new Harmony paint
Anita
Michelle, Brandie, Al where do you all live? Most of these paints are made by the same supplier. That would explain why so many brands have the problem. It might sound extreme, but all of us who have posted here have been victims of what amounts to a CHEMICAL ATTACK whether you think you have solved the toxic paint fume problem or not. Most of us stumbled onto this site, but there are many other complaints out there. I have met consumers, contractors and home improvement employees who have also noticed these suspicious, potent, sickening, chemical fumes from “paint”. Some have noticed while the paint was in the can. Paint fume complaints are showing up in hotel and apartment rental reviews. Paint is not some new, mysterious invention that we have not all been exposed to. We have all been around painted surfaces, wet or dry, every day of our lives! No matter what the paint industry wants us to believe, we all know what paint is supposed to smell like. “Paint” is not suppose to contaminate furniture, clothes, hair, or cause burning in mouths, eyes, lungs. “Paint” is not supposed to cause vomiting, nosebleeds, asthma attacks or neurological problems. “Paint” is not supposed to cause people to move out of their homes or cause them not to be able to walk into rooms in their homes without feeling nauseous or like they are suffocating. Fumes from “paint” are not supposed to linger for years and travel all over an entire house and in some cases outside. “Paint” is not supposed to smell like natural gas, burning cigarettes, vinegar, sulfur, ammonia, cat urine or a dead animal. If these potent fumes are on your furniture, clothes and all over your house, they are on and in your body too. We are most likely dealing with an acid the way these paints burns through coats of shellac, KILZ, etc. that are supposed to encapsulate it. In the UK, the paint companies suggest an alkali paint. An Alkali neutralizes an acid! Call the Health Department and Poison Control. The Health Department told me to call 911 for the Fire Department if I felt my health was in danger. Tell the Fire Department you are being overwhelmed by suspicious, chemical fumes. Contact the CDC and the Attorney General’s Office. Contact the Attorney General of the U.S.. Contact the Justice Department, the FBI and Homeland Security. We have been told to be vigilant! We all need to start treating this chemical contamination like the crime it is.
Brandie
Anita, most folks I talk to about this think I’m a little nutty and I have had a hard time being taken seriously.
Brenda, yes you can sand drywall with a sander but it will not remove all your paint. I would suggest you re drywall considering your asthma and wait several weeks to let all the mud throughly dry. Next, I would paint with Ecos primer and then Air Pure paints specifically for asthma/MCS folks.
Brandie
Also, like to add Brenda I would not attempt re drywalling yourself.
Brenda
Brandie we tore out our old Sheetrock that we painted in early March as it had gone toxic. We had a professional put up new Sheetrock and let the mud dry for over a week before painting with SW Harmony which again has turned smelly but it’s different than the first time when we painted with Olympic. The first time was awful gas like fumes. This time it’s a sour claylike smell that goes up and down with intensity the only good thing is it’s staying in the room and not spreading through the house like the first time so at least we can use the kitchen, bath and living room.
We really don’t want to tear out the walls again, the cost is already ridiculous. And Brandie I also feel like everyone thinks I’m nuts. My husband says he can’t smell it this time but he couldn’t smell it last time until the noxious fumes started. The first time it also smelled claylike but after two weeks it turned so strong it brought tears to your eyes. So far it’s been 3 weeks and it has gotten any stronger.
A friend of mine painted her hallway and one wall in her living room and one wall in her kitchen. All with the same can of paint, her hallway smells like sour pickles a month after she painted. The living room and kitchen don’t smell. So how crazy is that!
Brandie
Brenda, I can’t imagine how you feel to have thought problem solved and now have another issue.
I am so sorry.
The bad thing about these latex paints is they will continue to off gas through your next layer of whatever paint you use.
Kilz would be too much for you to bear.
What about a thin drywall over the current drywall? That may not be as expensive as a complete tear out and restart?
Has any body in the above posts tried to wallpaper over the problem? I admit I have not read the entire thread just off and on.
As for your friend, I wonder if she doesn’t smell it in the living room and kitchen because the rooms are bigger?
Did you happen to use a color that added a lot of colorants? I think that was part of my problem.
Have you considered a lawsuit?
Brenda
Brandie the first color I used was called Heavy Cream by Olympic and the second was very similar called Eaglet Beige from SW. I wish I picked a totally different color second time but I had bought a new bedspread and curtains and it went so well with the off white color and I wanted to brighten the room. So much for that!
I did read on the UK blog where someone said they wallpapered over it and it seemed to work but I wonder if it eventually came thru, there was no follow up which is what I’m finding frustrating. So far the only one that seemed to solved his problem is Kane using the masonry paint but he used the SW Harmony and had no issue with it and I do. So I do wonder if it’s regional. I’m in western MA where are you?
I’m thinking the same thing you just mentioned about my friends paint.
My main concern now is my husband plans on moving back to the painted bedroom as he doesn’t notice the smell like I do and I worry about his health, he’s very stubborn. I’ve had a few friends in to smell it and hey all notice it but say well it’s not that bad or it’s not as bad as the first time. Not that bad! I know I’d end up with another asthma attack if I slept one night in there.
Lynne
Has anyone negotiated a settlement, filed a law suit or had the paint or room tested by a lab?
Brenda
Has anyone here used the Alkali paint that the folks in the UK recommend? Has it worked?
Also no one ever answered if heating the room to a very high temp works. There seems to be just a hand full of us that stay updated here. Makes me wonder if others found a solution and never came back here to let us know what they did.
I was searching other websites late into the night last night and found the blog from the UK which had many complaints about Crown paint, they even had a BBC news segment done on the issue. The dates go back to 2007 so this has been going on for a long time I thought it was only within the last 2 or 3 years, since the EPA made them change their formula unless Europe did the change years ago which is a good possibility.
I also wonder why we haven’t heard about any business’s, hospitals, etc that have had this issue occur. You would think it would happen. I just still can’t believe we’ve had it happen twice, that really blows my mind. We did everything exactly the way it should be done weather wise, air circulation, etc. I just don’t get it ?
Lisa
I agree with Anita. This issue needs to be brought out into the open – into the public eye. i doubt that the FBI or homeland security will be interested. But health departments, hospitals, the CDC, and certainly the Consumer Public Safety Commission SHOULD be interested, since this impacts our health. The more reports the better. The more documentation the better.
Yes, it’s all brands, no, it’s not all cans. We have no way to know where along the line this problem is caused. It could even be caused by the situation in our own home. THE POINT IS: We should be able to apply these paints according to directions and customary means (clean new rollers, brushes, pans, within temperature and humidity specs, etc) and NOT end up with a smell that doesn’t go away.
There are no warnings on these cans that this might happen, there are no warnings to keep a sample of the paint as proof that there’s something wrong with it. All we have is the stink, and our determination to make someone acknowledge it and tell us how to fix it. WE’RE GETTIN’ NUTHIN’ – and that is criminal, because it’s deceptive and negligent. These cans should have warnings on them, and when the manufacturers are notified that a customer has been struck with this phenomenon, they should step in to prevent further damages and injury. They should fix it and provide alternative housing if necessary.
But, you can see why they are working so hard to be able to deny the problem – think of the money they would have to pay for physical injury once it’s revealed what we’re breathing.
Our problem is: people aren’t aware of this phenomenon BEFORE it happens to them. They don’t know until it’s too late and they find themselves here, and they find out that the paint company knew all along, even though they told the customer they have no “batch reports” or no customer complaints about the problem, or that priming over it doesn’t fix it, etc.
Tell everyone you know about this problem. But most importantly, report it to the company and note who and when you reported it, and report it to the authorities, as Anita has suggested. Get the air in the room tested if you can afford it. Ask for a broad spectrum analysis – since the paint company doesn’t have to list all the ingredients and if you test only for those that are listed you might miss the offending components.
And I agree, going through this is the face of the paint company’s denials and “dirty tricks” is disheartening. It’s very stressful to have to try to live with fumes, especially when they’re making you physically ill. Don’t risk your health. Try calling a personal injury lawyer. If you’re having medical problems a personal injury lawyer might be willing to take your case and simply charge you a % of whatever they’re able to recoup from the corporation. Plus the lawyer will know what kind of testing you need to do, and might cover that if they feel you’ve got a good case. I hate to advise people to sue, but it’s become far too evident that these companies don’t respect anything else. They have no desire to help you or to provide basic good customer service.
Lisa
Brenda – if you take a few hours (too long, I know) and read through these comments, you will find that heat worked for some and not others. Also, dehumidifier worked for some and not others.
I tried high heat alternated with ventilation. The warmer the room got, the more it stunk. however, again – that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t work for you. You can try whatever you want to try. You might get lucky, just like you got unlucky. Before removing the drywall again, I would definitely try some other things, including the masonry primer. BUT keep in mind, if you prime before getting the company in there to document, and getting some unbiased evaluation from a third party, you will be very unlikely to collect any damages.
And, because the specifications on these paints say that it can take up to thirty days to cure the paint, I wouldn’t do anything until 30 days had passed (unless it’s something that would help it to cure) You don’t want to get the room too hot either because that itself can damage the paint.
Lisa
Also, Brenda – since you have new drywall, you have eliminated one factor. you said you had the drywall professionally installed. Call the drywaller to come back and smell the room. Ask him for a piece of the drywall he used and ask him to verify that there was nothing wrong with the drywall.
Brenda
Lisa, thx I will give it the thirty days and then if not gone which I don’t have high hopes, I will have a rep come to the house. See if I can get them to at least cover the cost of trying to cover the paint, I’m thinking of trying the masonry paint. Maybe see if I can get them to paint it. If that worked I think I would just leave it and not put a tinted paint.
The professional contractor is a friend so when the 30 days is up I will have him come back to smell the room. Thanks for mentioning that!
One thing we did before we repainted was doing a test on a spare piece of drywall like others mentioned on this blog, doesn’t work, we did it and there was no smell so thought we were safe!
Kane
Brenda, have you considered that the odor can be coming from the ceiling rather than the new walls? Did you paint the ceiling? If not, it’s also possible that they absorbed any odors from the original bad wall.
Brenda
Kane once the room was gutted we let it air out for a few weeks the smell had disappeared immediately when the walls were gone. When the new Sheetrock went up we let it sit almost two weeks there was no bad odors.
Kane
And you said you primed with SW Harmony? Did it smell with primer only before paint went on?
Brenda
Kane yes we used harmony primer and let it dry for a week before painting. The primer did have a clay like smell that did not go away after a week of drying.
Kane
Brenda, how about the test piece of drywall? You tried priming and painting it before doing your walls correct?
I’ve used many different primers for different projects including BIN shellac, 1-2-3, Harmony, Insl-x and they all have an odor that take weeks to dissipate.
Brenda
Kane the test we did didn’t smell. When I went over to a friends house who had painted her hallway and then one wall in kitchen and one wall in living room with the same paint, we only noticed the smell in the hallway. Seems like it’s stronger in smaller areas, we have a small bedroom.
Weve painted a lot over the years, even worked for contractors painting and never ever had this kind of issue before, it’s just so mind boggling.
Liz
Hello everyone. I have been reading this blog until my eyes feel like they will bleed. I have read about all sorts of odors, but I am not certain I am having the same problem. We took my house down to concrete floors and walls in December 2014. EVERYTHING is brand new (except the drywall). I live in SW Florida, so my windows are open in the winter. When the windows are open, there is a distinct “cat pee” or ammonia smell. The longer the windows are open, the worse the smell. After a great deal of investigation, it is definitely the walls or paint. It seems most of the posts here talk about a different smell than what we are experiencing. Who has the cat pee/ammonia smell and has anything worked for this???? We painted the ENTIRE house with the same paint! After a complete renovation, we simply cannot afford to tear out the drywall and I do not want to live forever with my windows closed and a/c on! Help!
Michelle
I’m currently shocking my bathroom with chlorine dioxide. If it is bacteria then it shouldn’t live through this. I set it up last night, put a towel under the door where there was a gap (to block light getting in) and then put the window film plastic over the door and sealed it with painters tape. I haven’t smelled any chlorine in the house. Technically I could undo it today but I think I will leave it until tomorrow morning. They say a max of 24 hrs on the instructions and I want to go for at least the max time. However they also say UV light will destroy the reaction so I wanted to start it at night. It may take a while for the chlorine to clear when I undo it tomorrow so will probably have the result in a week or so.
I poured the water on it and jumped out of the room so fast that I can only hope the reaction went off as prescribed.
Kane
Brenda, the issue at your friend’s house sounds like the hallway may not have the ventilation needed for paint to cure or for the bad air to circulate out. It may be all the areas are equally off-gassing but the kitchen and living room probably has windows where as the hallway does not.
Brenda
I think it’s more noticeable in smaller areas as it’s more concentrated but my bedroom has two windows we keep open during the day with 3 fans, one blowing in fresh airin, one blowing out the air and the ceiling fan going. That’s a lot of air circulating, I really don’t think the problem has to do with the paint curing, the first time we painted and it went bad we had a remediator in who tested if the paint had cured or not, he said it had dried thoroughly. He didn’t understand why it would still gass off.
I don’t think any of us really know or understand what is really happening with these paints. Nothing makes sense.
Brenda
Michelle please keep us posted on how this turns out! My fingers are crossed for you, if it works I’ll try it. Where did you find out about doing this? I haven’t heard much about it. What does it all entail?
Michelle
Hi Brenda,
When I was googling this problem it was mentioned as having worked by a person with a blog. I didn’t save the link since I was generally surfing for ideas. After reading this thread and seeing how encapsulating didn’t work I thought it was worth a try. I bought the Room Shocker off Amazon. It is for 400 sqr ft and my bathroom is alot less than that. It comes as a packet of dried chemicals in a small yogurt sized container. It also has a small plastic cup (similar in size to the ones you take cough medicine). You fill the small plastic cup with warm water and pour it over the pouch of dried chemicals in the yogurt sized container then seal up the room. I used plastic window sheets and painters tape to seal the room. Tomorrow I will open it up. Then I have to give it time for the chlorine smell to clear. If the paint still smells then I’m thinking it isn’t a bacteria but a chemical reaction in the paint. For $23 I thought it was worth a shot.
There is no way my paint isn’t ‘cured’ because it has been a year and I live in a very dry climate. From what I read chlorine dioxide was used after Katrina to clean up the mold/mildew residue smell. My guess is it killed the spores. It is supposed to decay into a salt water residue so should be safe after it has done it’s job, hopefully killing anything living in the paint causing the odor.
I took the towels out of the bathroom and washed them on sanitary setting with Lysol. Then I dried them on sanitary setting in my dryer. After your tale of taking down the drywall but not solving the problem I was worried that what ever it is could get into the towels because maybe it got into your ceiling drywall. I also propped open the cabinet doors. But I forgot to open the cabinet drawers. Hopefully that won’t matter.
Brenda
Michelle, thanks so much for the details and PLEASE let me know how this test works for you as I too very much want to know if we are dealing with bacteria or chemical.
When we first painted our bedroom in early March it only took about 10 days to turn from a claylike smell to gas fumes that started going into the whole house, we have a one story ranch, even with the door closed! So we had no choice but to tear out the walls, we did not tear out the ceiling or closet as they were painted earlier and did not smell at all. So we hoped once it was gutted that the smell would disappear as it did. If it wasn’t gone at that point we would have ripped the rest out. I did find the anything that was in the room and obsorbed the smell it went away after a few days of being outside in fresh air.
We left the room gutted for about 2 weeks with no smell. We also had replaced all the insulation. Then we hired to have new drywall put in. We let that sit for a week before priming. Once the walls were primed with a harmony it had a similar claylike smell to the first paint. I was VERY nervous about that. We went ahead and painted the beige color, SW Harmony and it turned to the sour like smell. At least with the door closed and towel along the bottom no smell comes thru. But I am so disturbed after all that work and expense we still don’t have our house and lives back to normal.
We’ve just been airing it out everyday to the outside with 3 fans going. My husband refuses to gut it again, said he’d sell the house before he does that again. So we live in the basement with our clothes in plastic tubs. I’m heard out now to buy some clothe racks to set up a closet in the basement. ?
Brenda
Michelle, thanks just read it. Wrote down the info to get it if yours works (praying it does) my fingers are crossed!!!!
Michelle
I live in Colorado and used a grey color paint.
I just opened the room up and didn’t really smell chlorine. I’m not sure if the chemical reaction went off. I’ll air it out and smell it later. I bought a second one so may try again if it seems to have not gone off. In the reviews they occasionally do have one that doesn’t go off. So far it smells exactly the same so I’m thinking it didn’t go.
Brenda
Michelle what part of the country do you live in and what color paint did you use? I had asked others earlier on this blog trying to see if it’s happening more in a certain region or if the colorant is similar. I am in Western amA and used a beige color, my friend who painted her hall with the sour smell also used a similar color to mine.
Michelle
Here is the post where I got the idea from. The original poster has the same problem that we do. The last answer in the thread was the person who used Chlorine Dioxide. The company they got the product from doesn’t appear to be in business anymore so I just searched for Chlorine Dioxide and found the Room Shocker on Amazon.
http://www.bobvila.com/posts/206382-strong-paint-chemical-smell-from-room-over-a-year-won-t-go-away?page=1#.VywYSr6zkUw
Kane
Items like this are all scams praying on desperate individuals like us. They can not fix the source of the odor which is offgassing paint. No product unless applied directly to the walls can change the chemical makeup of the paint. Air fresheners , candles, ion machines and all that can only cover up whatever is already in the air. It can’t fix the source. Just think about say an open bottlen of perfume. Nothing can change the perfume composition or its odor unless its removed or covered.
Michelle
Kane, I got it from Amazon with a money back guarantee so not too worried about it being a scam. I just took out the second kit and examined the packet. It is more flexible and powdery. The first one was rock hard. One of the instructions was to shake up the packet to distribute the ingredients. So I suspect it was a bad packet. I will try again with the second kit tonight.
Also I’m not sure if it is due to mold/mildew growing in the paint or a chemical reaction. This is one way to find out.
Michelle
Just got off the phone with customer service. They indicated the packet should not have been hard. It may have been stored improperly somewhere. I’m going to go ahead and set the second one off now. It’s packet is more flexible. Since it is an indoor bathroom with no windows it should be dark enough to work.
Lisa
Any gas strong enough and remaining long enough to kill microbes in the paint would also be highly toxic to human tissues. It’s hard to believe that something like that could be sold without some kind of oversight. But I suppose that depending on the cause of the smell, it might work or it might not – just like everything else that everyone here has tried.
I understand that people want to just fix this. But if someone has decided not to pursue compensation or assistance from the paint manufacturer – why wouldn’t you try the simplest thing first? Which would be the masonry primer? Maybe it won’t work and then you can try other fancy things. But we tried a primer first. We didn’t know about the masonry primer and the paint company sure wasn’t going to tell us because then they’d be admitting that they had some familiarity with the problem. But I would have tried that too. And I would have tried anything else that somebody told me might work if I thought it would mean I wouldn’t have to replace the drywall.
I still would ask / recommend that people involve the paint company, vendor, and professionals before they spend more money and destroy more evidence that the paint is causing the problem. But I completely understand that people just want to fix it.
I suspect that some people who commented early on this site may have signed off on a small reimbursement from the paint makers before they knew that the primer didn’t work. Although some may have had success with just primer. Again – different causes, different cures.
The paint companies are manufacturing products that are susceptible to bacteria, mold, etc. and to long- term offgassing due to their new chemical structures that are trying to reduce VOCs. Some of these fumes you’re breathing may be deleterious to your health. If that’s the case, shouldn’t we hold the manufacturers responsible? Yes, we want to get rid of it. Yes, we want it fixed. But then what about what happened to Brenda? who thought she got rid of it but may have gotten another bad can? At some point we have to deal with the REAL cause of the problem = the bad paint.
Are we to live in houses without paint? That’s ok with me. But we need something on our walls. Carpets?
Michelle
Lisa,
Look up Chlorine Dioxide. Here is the info. from the govt. on it.
http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/PHS/PHS.asp?id=580&tid=108
“Chlorine dioxide is used as a bleach at pulp mills, which make paper and paper products, and in public water-treatment facilities, to make water safe for drinking. It has also been used to decontaminate public buildings. ”
You ask why not use the masonry primer? First that is alot of work to apply and it isn’t intended for indoor use so I don’t know what chemicals it would introduce into my house. Chlorine dioxide should break down very quickly after it is used.
“Chlorine dioxide is a very reactive compound. In air, sunlight quickly breaks chlorine dioxide apart into chlorine gas and oxygen. In water, chlorine dioxide reacts quickly to form chlorite ions. ”
“Chlorine dioxide is added to drinking water to protect people from harmful bacteria and other microorganisms. Most people will be exposed to chlorine dioxide and its disinfection by-product, chlorite ions, when they drink water that has been treated with chlorine dioxide. ”
“Chlorine dioxide and chlorite usually enter the body when people drink water that has been disinfected with chlorine dioxide. Because chlorine dioxide rapidly breaks down in air to chlorine gas and oxygen, you would not likely breathe air containing dangerous levels of chlorine dioxide, but if you did, it could be absorbed across your lungs. You are not likely to encounter chlorite in the air you breathe. Whether chlorine dioxide or chlorite on your skin would be absorbed to any great extent is not known.
Both chlorine dioxide and chlorite act quickly when they enter the body. Chlorine dioxide quickly changes to chlorite ions, which are broken down further into chloride ions. The body uses these ions for many normal purposes. Some chloride ions leave the body within hours or days, mainly in the urine. Most chlorite that is not broken down also leaves the body in the urine within a few days after exposure to chlorine dioxide or chlorite.”
“Both chlorine dioxide and chlorite react quickly in water and moist body tissues. If you were to breathe air containing chlorine dioxide gas, you might experience irritation in your nose, throat, and lungs. ”
Based on the above I determined it was safe to shock my room with chlorine dioxide. I have the door sealed with plastic and painters tape. Tomorrows I will open it up and blow any left over gas into the sunlight. However according to everything I’ve read the gas should have naturally broken down by then and I will only have a chlorine odor.
Still crossing my fingers that it takes the paint odor with it.
Brenda
I’m still anxious to find out if the chlorine dioxide works. At least we’d know it’s bacteria in the paint. So good luck Michelle, and let us know how it plays out. Chemical wise can the chlorine be much worse than what we are all ready dealing with? If the smell can’t be rid of with trying everything else then the walls have to come out anyway.
As far as what else to do on the walls. If we have to start over I will wallpaper, I hear it’s coming back in style anyway! Or beadboard paneling and stain it. But so far my husband is convinced it will air out ?. So I’m setting up our closet in the basement and putting a new bed in the guest room which we will be able to use. Will keep our spare be in he basement just in case.
I will never paint again!!!
Michelle
Thanks Brenda,
Yesterday we had 8.5% humidity but today it is 31% because rain is coming in and I can smell some moisture in the air. I asked the company if the humidity or lack thereof could have impacted it and they didn’t think so but maybe that would have made a difference. They definitely thought the packet being hard meant it was bad and were ready to send me another on the spot but I told them I got it through Amazon so they asked me to work through them for a replacement. Also being at altitude we have less oxygen. Another variable to throw in the the mix. On top of that we had high ozone yesterday. I don’t know if that could have affected it also. In any event as far as I can tell no reaction went off.
I also realized I did not tape over the ceiling bath vent last time so did that this time.
I gotta admit this has put me off painting also.
Brenda
Michelle once everything is sealed is it suppose to be dark, do you have to black out the window? Once it’s done do you open up the window to air out?
We have central air conditioning and just thought uh oh once summer comes and it gets hot when we turn that on will it spread the bad air into the rest of the house? The air intake is in the hallway ceiling just out side the bedroom door so I am hoping as long as the door stays closed it will be ok. Just another thing to worry about. I’m so tired of worrying!
Michelle
Hi Brenda,
It is supposed to be dark as the gas will decompose right away in sunlight. Probably it is best to start the process in the evening if you have exterior windows so it is dark over night. You can black out the window if you want to run it for the full 24 hours. For the central air it seems like you are supposed to seal the vents with plastic. We have hydronic radiant heat so no duct work to worry about.
Our bathroom is completely interior so I decided to run it this time during the day with a towel stuffed under the door. I still sealed the door to the room with plastic and painters tape.
It also has to be over 50 degrees as if it is too cold the process will not work. They said not to disturb the area as the gas needs to spread so I can’t go in and check if it is working.
Yes, once it is done you open a window to air it out. Since our bathroom is interior I will turn on the exhaust fan and if need be run a fan in the room. The reviews all said there is a chlorine smell after it is done which dissipates and leaves the room with no odor. Most of the reviews were for other types of odors not paint so we will have to see if it works for this problem.
Lisa
Michelle, thanks for posting that link on chlorine dioxide. You excerpted all the notes on its safety but none on its risks. I doubt that the product you’re using can cause much harm to humans unless its inhaled directly. As I said: anything strong enough or lasting long enough to penetrate the paint layer and kill microbes would be toxic to human tissue and would be unlikely to be sold in such a fashion. The by-products of water chlorination are carcinogenic. Chlorinated water is toxic. But, as with the product you’re using – the toxicity dissipates and breaks down. Any benefit of chlorine dioxide could likewise be gained by wiping the walls with bleach (for which one should wear the appropriate respirator and gloves).
http://blog.pksafety.com/a-respirator-mask-to-protect-you-from-bleach-and-mold/
i hope the chlorine dioxide works for you. Thanks again.
Lisa
The point of my comment above was: should we be having to soak every inch of our walls with bleach (a dangerous compound that can cause immediate and long-term harm) or “bomb” our rooms with chlorine dioxide? Or use repeated coats of primers which are also toxic? And all without knowing whether or which any one of these remedies will work?
I’d like to see a warning on every can of these paints. I’d like to see this issue publicized. So that when this happens to someone, the paint company comes in and fixes it – WHATEVER THAT MEANS. And the customer doesn’t have to be further exposed to toxic gases and substances on their own. Let professionals come in with appropriate equipment and fix it – even if that’s masonry primer. I’m not saying masonry primer is the best option. I never tried it and I don’t really know. It was just one more thing to try short of ripping out the drywall. I’d probably try the chlorine bomb too – but it would be impractical in many situations and is also dangersous, just like ozone treatments. I did try wiping the wall with bleach in spots. The smell there went away overnight. I figured it might be possible to kill what I too believed were bacteria with bleach. but it was a large room and it was not feasible to soak every inch of the walls with bleach. Also, that could have damaged the drywall.
It shouldn’t be up to us to overcome the damage and stink caused by these products. The money, the time, the stress, the toxicity. Is that really right?
Lynne
I agree with Lisa’s comments. I’ve been deeply moved by everything you are all doing to get rid of the problem. Perhaps having several lab tests done on the paint itself, or an air sampling test for mold or voc’s, would zero in on the problem initially and find the source of the problem. Cost is roughly 100 dollars per test, but worth it if it finds the problem as only then will you know for sure what to do to solve the problem. Otherwise its like finding a needle in a haystack. Various so called remedies can be hazardous, time consuming and as with Brenda, and my heart goes out to her, cause further illness and symptoms.
With testing, you will also have proof should you pursue it legally, and several of you have very very strong cases in both small claims court and civil, the latter having the opportunity to meet and work it our before moving forward legally. Also one consultation with a lawyer for a half hour is only 100 dollars.
This website is excellent in providing information and advice on how to fix the problem yourself. Kane has been outstanding as have been all the others. And it will be helpful to use for anyone trying to get the paint mfgs. to accept responsibility where it is theirs.
There are labs in all areas who can test in the home and this can be used legally.
You can also initially test yourselves more cheaply by getting or picking up the needed receptacles and they tell you how to do it. It’s simple.
If you do it yourselves and find something, you can then bring in professional environmental testers to confirm and then use in court.
I realize you had nowhere to live and had to do something…but perhaps this might be an additional way to do it and be reimbursed later on.
Good luck!
Lisa
PS – Michelle, I was only recommending the masonry primer if someone was at the point of ripping out their drywall. Like if a chlorine dioxide bomb didn’t work. It’s ok to use masonry primer indoors. But I just read that it is noted to have ingredients that cause cancer. So I’m not sure I would have used it after all.
Why are the paint companies getting away with this?
Because no lawyer has yet been convinced that he or she can win a case against them. Too many variables. Too easy for the paint companies to blame the customer. Only once customer are aware of this problem so that the moment it occurs they get the health department, CPSC and lawyer in there will anything change. And only once those who are sickened start getting treated by doctors who can verify the medical problems.
Brenda
Has anyone done the tests Lynne mentioned?
I’m afraid to say that I don’t think anything will happen to remedy this horrible issue until someone dies from the fumes which could easily happen eventually as its so toxic. Unfortunately corporate greed always wins until a major tragedy happens. Then they are forced to take notice and the press will get involved. Sad that it takes a tradigy to wake people up.
Brandie
Yes, I had my home tested for mold through an independent air quality testing service. The test was negative.
I purchased an indoor air quality reader that continuously provides air readings of particulates (mold, dust, etc) as well as VOC, carbon dioxide and humidity.
So far, after I’ve painted with air pure paints, installed new carpet and even purchased a new mattress, the VOCs stay in the acceptable range except with cooking and cleaning which is expected.
I can’t begin to tell you all how much we have suffered physically, financially and psychologically from this ordeal.
I am planning on skipping the attorney. I am sending an invoice to the company with all my expenses to date with a due date for payment in full.
We are exhausted of the whole ordeal and have let other projects in the house go trying to find a solution to this mess. I am ready to sell my home this whole experience has left such a bad taste.
I am frustrated with the lack of an answer to the problem.
I was terrified when we replaced the carpet it would never off gas. I am terrified to purchase a bed from Mattress Firm b/c I don’t know how long it will off gas. I have to buy non toxic and organic everything (yes, this includes beds too!)
My nerves have been greatly affected by all this and have instituted a fear that everything is toxic.
Brenda
Brandie, yes I feel exactly the same way and I hate it. Worry and stress can take a toll on a body also, it’s horrible to feel this way.
Anita
Hi Brandie, where did you get your indoor air quality reader? What brand is it and how much did it cost?
Brandie
Hi Anita,
It is called Blue Air Aware. I got it off if Blooningdales website for $149.
Michelle
I undid the plastic this morning and right away could smell some chlorine so I knew the reaction went off. The rooms smelled like an indoor pool. We undid the bathroom vent fan tape and started to vent the room. The chlorine smell wasn’t as strong as I feared it would be. Left the doors open to the house and went for a dog walk. Got back and the smell was milder, barely there. Sniffed the walls and there was no smell. It is 54 degrees here so can’t really leave the doors open too long.
So far it appears that it may have worked but I’ll have to wait until the chlorine smell is completely gone before I can tell for sure. The bathroom is about 15ftx5ft with an 8 ft ceiling so much smaller than the 400 sqr ft the shocker was supposed to handle.
Brenda
Michelle, omg I am so hoping this works! Please keep me posted for a few months if you would. I’m wondering if it can come back especially once the hot humid summer starts. Are you on the east coast where it can get very humid?