Getting rid of paint smell
Today’s question comes from Aaren. Aaren asks:
Hi hope you can help! My daughter’s room will not stop smelling. In fact, I challenged Olympic Paint and Lowe’s – going back and forth until we settled. KILZ and another coat of paint reproduced the original smell! Olympic even paid a professional to do all that work for us. The second coat of Premium One water based latex interior paint still smells. We have 2 air purifiers and had our windows opens for a week while painting and for 12 days afterward. …. As of today however we are dealing with a smell from Friday. It’s awful and I’m afraid to let my daughter sleep in there (although she has for two nights). WHAT can I do to make it go away. The room seems like it’s cursed. No other room in our house ever smelled like this… Please help with ideas of what to do. How long is this supposed to last. The smell is like a sweet, clay smell. It doesn’t really smell like paint at all. We even crawled into the attic to check for smell and it wasn’t present. We tried sprays, onions, vinegar, steam cleaning. Everything. Your advice would be greatly appreciated. Many thanks. Aaren
To be honest I personally have never experienced prolonged smelling after painting a room. Usually something like that might happen if there is excessive moisture which makes the paint dry slower and may contribute to the paint smelling. To try to get rid of the smell I would put a container with some coffee in it. If it doesn’t remove the smell at least will enhance the air a bit.
Lisa
Anita – who is at the phone number you want us to call?
Ron – did you try primers? What kinds? How many coats?
I am still in mid-stream here. The BIN primer has reduced the smell, so I’m hoping that more of it will reduce it even more. I am afraid to apply paint though. But should I have to live with primer on the walls?
I am still communicating with the company (PPG) in hopes of reimbursement for my expenses, but since I don’t know what they will total at this time, I don’t know what resolution I’ll be content with. Like others, it seemed like a good idea to try the primer first. What’s puzzling is: if the company knows about this problem (which they do) – you’d think they’d want to get it sorted out – – like develop advice as to how affected customers should deal with it. But not all cans of this paint are having this problem. So perhaps it’s a game of odds. I can only speculate.
Different people on this site have used different products from different companies. They seem to have in common that they are low or zero VOC.
Linda O'Neill
Yes you would think they would want to get it sorted but I believe there could be Health problems associated to these products and then it will be huge for their industry. So they are just denying there is a problem they tell each complainant they have had no complaints which is an utter lie.
Complaints need to be going to Government bodies not just to the company. Any one with health problems should be getting their doctors to report it. Maybe even go to the media.
Barb
The elephant in the room – WHAT can one paint with, once either a shellac based product works to seal in the smell, or the walls are ripped out and replaced? Please folks – if you have a success story with a follow up paint, share it! I’ve lived through nearly 2 years of misery which finally seems to have been at least partially solved by BIN, but what paint can I now safely put on my walls?
Lisa
John in Ontario, Canada:
I would suggest you go ahead and get an expert in there to rule out something like moldy drywall. There was some bad product from China on the market for a while. I had an expert come to my home – a guy who is a “fixer” after fire, flood, blood, etc. He was able to rule out mold. His assessment didn’t cost us anything.
I also read the advise from the gentleman who suggested that the walls be sprayed with Lysol. Although it makes sense, I would NEVER do that. Lysol itself is very bad to breath, and you’d have to spray so many many cans to actually produce any saturation of the surface of the paint that it seems like an unrealistic undertaking. it’s also a liquid, so if whatever is causing the smell ISN’T susceptible to Lysol, then it could make the problem worse.
I tried wiping areas of the stinky walls with bleach, alcohol, and a commercial wall cleaner. Although the bleach and alcohol subdued the smell in the wiped area a bit, it would have been impossible to apply enough to affect the whole wall, and once the bleach or alcohol dried, the remaining stinky paint underneath “took over” again. The area never stopped smelling.
I do believe that one reason the BIN is effective is that it’s alcohol-based. So you’ve got the alcohol killing the surface “bugs” and simultaneously the shellac is suffocating it.
If you’ve still got the can your primer or paint came in, you have a chance to check that out too.
I’m sorry if this comment isn’t addressing your own comment exactly, I just have a few minutes here right now.
WR
Hi, I check back here every few months but not super often. We had the problem start for us in early 2014, and here is where we are at:
*The BIN Shellac (the real stuff, not synthetic), reduced the odor but did not make it go completely away. The longer we go on, the more it seems to come out from behind the BIN. I wish we had replaced the drywall from the very beginning.
*We are using a very expensive GC MultiGas air filter from IQ Air. Don’t waste your money on HEPA filters, etc., you need something that will remove chemicals (like the MultiGas) This makes the room usable for storage and completely eliminates the smell, but it is not a long term solution. We will be ripping out the drywall when we have money and time.
*When we paint again, I will not use low-VOC paint, I will not use dark/saturated colors, I will not buy paint in the winter time, and I will consider getting local paint (as someone here suggested), although I’m not really sure that their supply chain would be all that different from big box stores. We will also paint ourselves (no professionals) so that I can immediately stop the project if the paint smells. We will wait 72 hours between coats and run a dehumidifier to help the paint dry properly.
For all of you trying the BIN Shellac (the real stuff, not synthetic), please make sure to use a gas mask. Shellac is very toxic while it goes up. It should dry quickly and be fine once dry, but you should not be painting Shellac without proper safety equipment. My other comment would be, learn from everyone else’s mistakes here and skip the Shellac. It is not a permanent solution. Best solution is to bite the bullet and rip out the walls.
Sue
Excellent advice ! Thank you for sharing.
Anita
David is right. This is a chemical reaction. Most likely very dangerous and toxic. We need to work together to get help immediately. 310-520-8477 is a news station with investigative reporters. Call and leave a message there and at the consumer products safety commission. They need to get more than one complaint to investigate.
Lisa
WR, Sandy, and others:
I’ve read all the comments on this site at least once or twice. But for some reason I missed a number of things each time.
I feel like I should have left the three coats of BIN as is. (two synthetic and one shellac) The smell at first blush of hot humid weather had seemed to return – and I scheduled one more coat of BIN shellac in hopes of knocking it down once and for all. Then, leaving the room very warm – it seemed that the smell from the 3 coats was fading. But I had the fourth coat put on anyway. In fact, I asked the painter to keep going until the entire can was on the walls. I’d had it tinted so he could see where he’d painted (instead of white on white)
The smell from the BIN seemed to go quickly. But now, four days later – a sickening musty clay odor has developed. I am hoping very much that this is the BIN “curing” – but I know that’s probably another stupid hope.
But no more. If 4-5 coats of BIN doesn’t get it, nothing will and I’ll have to rip out the walls.
I wish I’d read more carefully – but – I’m not sure I would have believed it if I hadn’t done this myself anyway. How could I have justified not trying the primers and spending all that money to rip the walls out from the start?
As it is however, I’ve spent 600$ on putting BIN on the walls, over and over and over….
Of course – if it turns out that this last go ’round just needs to “cure” – certainly I will be happy to report that to you all. It’s early enough in the summer to find out whether it’s going to work. It’s too hot and humid to have the windows open (90 today) – but I can put a space heater in there to help the process With the paint, that made things worse – but if this is going to work once and for all, the heat will make things better and not worse.
Anita: there isn’t another site talking about this – but I had joined a do it yourself site in order to ask others if they were familiar and what was there advice? No one had heard of this before, but it seemed that BIN shellac was recommended over KILZ oil based (if you were going to try to cover it)
I have reported this issue of bad smelling paint that doesn’t dry to the Consumer Product Safety Commission.
Anita, if you would tell me what the name of the news station is that you want me to call at the 310 #, I’ll do it. What happened when you told them about this?
I’d love for a lawyer to take an interest in this. Perhaps I’ll start sharing this link with some various law firms.
Linda O'Neill
Yes it is about high time this was out there and investigated. But it will be a hard slog. As the paint companies so big.
The bin never worked for me as from previous post you will see I am one of those who ripped out the dry wall.
By the way my wall were never previously painted.
I am in Australia but I will ring the number published here.
I would love to know what feedback others got from the number.
Besides the expense it is the trauma and stress it put you through.
Lisa
…and please… if you’re willing, write to me at mlema, followed by the number 45, @ gmail.com
(don’t want the robots to pick up my e-mail, so you have to interpret that address as it should be)
I will keep names together – in case a lawyer is interested we’ll have a way to give him or her our names and a way to contact us. As it is, people come and go and there’s no way to get back to them unless they happen to come back here.
Thanks to all of you very much! I’ll keep you posted (it will be a while until I know what’s going to happen with this last attempt) Did anyone else still reading here try 4-5 coats of BIN before quitting? (man, I must be crazy?)
John
I am realizing that I too have the paint-smell problem, and it’s been throughout my house since 2011. I thought it was something else, until by a process of elimination I started to consider the paint. And here, this page, proves that it is all too possible. My culprit is Home Depot Behr primer under two coats of Behr paint. I have determined that the odor started shortly after the house (new) was primered (lousy primer) for the first time. It’s never gone away after more than four years. I have been suffering memory loss and less muscular coordination. Things pop out of my fingers when doing detail work. In winter, I wake up afraid of what the night’s toxins may have done to me. Last winter, I opened the doors four times per 24-hour period. I’m in Ontario, Canada, with precious few window-open months.
I’d like to address the two scenarios, bacteria versus chemical. Before finding this page, I read from one person (Ric) who seems 100 percent certain that bacteria is eating the paint, and that re-painting only feeds it. It makes sense. However, there is a chance that he’s an agent of the paint people trying to shift the blame from the paint chemicals to bacteria. It should be expected that the paint people have gotten wind of this page, and that they will introduce their own comments suitable for their own concerns. But bacteria is a good theory, and Ric may instead be our angel. I’ll tell you why bacteria is a good theory, so long as it can still breath air under a few coats of paint. If bacteria can eat its way through a millimeter of paint to fresh air, new colonies will re-appear with vigor on the outside of your expensive, additional paint. Ric says not to use latex or oil paint to correct this problem, like throwing gas to a fire. His solution is to spray — not to roll or brush — Lysol on all the walls, two times. Let the first Lysol coat dry. After that, he says, “Once dry, prime the surface with BIN Primer or Synthetic BIN – Do not use latex or oil primers as they will also feed the bacteria. Do not use Zinssers Mold Killing Primer (won’t work, and not recommended by Zinsser). Best means of application again is to spray (low pressure) and not roll or brush. Allow to dry thoroughly – then apply a second app (same manner). Do not use odor-absorbing products – nor paint perfume additives…After the second coat of BIN has dried, apply 1 or 2 coats of a high quality, acrylic paint (again, best if sprayed – but now should be able to be rolled safely).”
He claims that none of the products suggested is food for the bacteria. But how does he know?
If the culprit were chemicals in atomic form worming their way through the pores in the paint / shellac, then three coats of paint / shellac over top of the chemicals should severly curb the latter’s migration to the outer surface, meaning that the smell should be greatly dimished permanently. But if your smell comes back with increasing levels, even to the point that was before the paint / shellac was applied, that’s why I think bacteria is the better theory. So, before you tear out the dryway, give Lysol or some other bacteria killer a chance, and maybe have some trust in Ric, but I’d like to know whether wallpaper can cut off either the oxygen to the bacteria, or prevent it from eating through it. I’m assuming that bacteria doesn’t eat everything. I assume it’s eating a certain chemical in the paint but may not eat paper or plastic. Isn’t there a water-proof, plasticized wallpaper for kitchen and bathroom pruposes?
Sign me up for a class-action suit. I have an entire house that’s polluted. I’d like to add one more thing. Ric claims that the bacteria is harmless even though it has a foul odor. How does he know that? He doesn’t say how he knows. It’s not anything a man on the street would know, not even a typical painter. That’s the one thing that makes me suspect that Ric could be an agent of the paint people. Still, he could be telling the truth concerning the bacteria at the root of the problem, in which case the paint people need to assure that they stop adding to the paint whatever it is that certain bacteria like to ingest. Apparently, the sweet-smelling odor is of a different bacteria than the the kind causing a foul or musty odor. I have the latter.
My name is John, and I am sorry for you all.
Sue
Hello All:
THE REAL PROBLEM
I know it is disruptive to your households and lives to be living with a foul odor. But what about having a heart attack or autoimmune disease that is triggered by the paint. Isn’t that important ? I read about a woman who had a heart attack 2 years after she painted the interior of her home. I don’t recall if it was on this website or another.
The bottom line is that the foul odors are indicative that there is a chemical reaction of some kind. Whatever the mechanism is, the paint companies are responsible. It does not matter if it is Zero-VOC (as was my case) or regular paint. The odors are SYMPTOMATIC of the larger problem which is the tremendous threat that this paint issue presents to OUR HEALTH.
Let me give you a brief update on my health.
* When I moved back into my home, post painting, I had difficulty breathing. So I moved back out into a motel for 2 more weeks.
When I moved back in, I still had difficulty breathing, but with nowhere else to go, I had to survive. So I slept (and continue to sleep with) a HEPA filter by my bed.
* I believe that despite the fact that several months have passed, the paint has weakened my immune system. Proof?
I had a relapse of Epstein-Bar Syndrome after 30 years of inactivity !
I overcame it. Then after catching a different virus, the EBV has been once again activated. This will take between 4 and 6 months to recover. I have been extremely weak, hardly able to feed myself and certainly not strong enough to buy my own groceries.
Many people appear to handle Dunn Edwards Zero VOC paint with no problem. Or is it silently chipping away at their health without their knowledge ? Time will tell. I just know that it has cause me many problems- health, financial, emotional duress.
When I read John’s post about his health, I wanted to cry. We must do something !!!
John wrote: ” I have been suffering memory loss and less muscular coordination. Things pop out of my fingers when doing detail work. ”
This sounds like a problem with the central nervous system to me.
Remember that paint is an environmental toxin that can push the human body over the edge.
Please, get out of your home before your health worsens !!!
You have reason for not being able to sleep because of this problem.
TAKING ACTION
I am the one who initially suggested a class action lawsuit sometime ago, however, I have since learned that a specific company needs to be named. In our case, it is the entire “field” of paint companies. Any attorneys out there who can tell me if my understanding of CALs is correct or not ?
After giving this some thought, I agree that the best way to bring about change is to approach the media. Let’s talk strategy here. Someone left a phone number in LA. Has anyone phoned and spoken to them? Who should we speak to ? Please provide the contact information including the e-mail address, phone number and name. I think it is an excellent idea, but it will not work unless we bombard them with phone calls and e-mails.
Let’s organize and fight this !!
Sue
John
Was up till 4 am reading, and writing that post. After some sleep, it’s now 8 am, and I have my story with some details to offer. The house was started in Dec 2008, one third of it only, up to the roof and shingles by February. I spent the rest of the winter elsewhere. Probably late in 2009, the one-third was drywalled and primered to act as living space while building the rest. Spent the 2010 winter away as well. Did not smell anything when returning in April-May, which is why I was dumb-founded when the odor first appeared the following year, after having drywalled and primered the rest of the place in 2010. If it was the formaldehyde in the particle-board floor, as was at-first suspect, it should have been of a harsher odor the year before. I do not recall bringing the 5-gallon bucket of Behr Premium Plus Drywall and Sealer with me (I still have the bucket), meaning that I must have left it to freeze all winter (over 2010). Interesting, but I’m not yet sold on the culprit being frozen paint. Even though the one-third area was primered in 2009, the winter would not have allowed the bacteria to thrive, explaining, I think, why there was no odor in the spring. After that, all doors would have been left open until October, but even with the doors and windows closed through to the end of Decemeber (spent that winter away again), the fact is, even now I do not smell anything while living in the house. The nose gets used to smells and no longer registers them to the senses, unless we leave the place and return. It worked every time I went to town for four or more hours; I’d return and find the same odor exactly. To this day. I feel that my house has been ruined. Try to imagine how that feels. I will not sell the house to give someone this problem, would rather die or get sick here. I can’t smell a thing right now as I write. My walls up-close never smell either, but that may be from the used-to-it factor. It takes about five minutes of being home before I no longer smell it. It was probably the winter 0f 2014 when I staying here the winter (was at home day and night)j, and when starting to cough, I knew I had allowed the doors to remain closed to long. I was refreshening the air twice per 24 hours. Some low-odor paint was purchased in the next summer to cover the particle board floors, but it did nothing to remove the odor. It was not a rotting animal, and I could not put my finger on anything in the house that could be the potential source. Finally, this year, I wondered whether it could be the paint, something that seemed unthinkable before that.
My paint has been fully dry, and chemical seepage from the paint chemicals is not expected to be so rampant that it smells the place up withing four to six hours. I’ve tested this by freshening the house before going to town, and four hours later in a sealed house (no windows open), the odor is foul. That’s why I refreshened four times daily this past winter. Bacteria create their own gases as exhaust, but they might also cause spores in the air, where they themselves migrate, and then into our lungs. I don’t know, I’m not qualified to know. But my next move is to get professional help, now knowing the likely source as the paint. Note that no matter what type of paint is applied, frozen or not, the bacteria eat it…if it’s bacteria at all, that is. If frozen paint causes a bacteria bonanza, thern the altered chemical nature of the paint (due to freeze) must be making “ice cream” for them to feast on. If the culprit is paint-related gas / fumes (not bacteria), I should have smelled it in the spring after all the house was primered, but I did not smell anything after returning that spring. However, the “funny” thing is, that was the year, I think, that I found the patio door practically wide open upon returning, but no water stains on the floor from snow or rain getting in. Particle board becomes stained with water. I figure that a person had been in the house very recently, but there was sign of such a one. Anyway, even now, if the patio door alone is left open while I’m in town, it’s never enough to get rid of the smell.
KDP
Update: My last comment was that we were going to tear out the drywall and start over. Before we tore it out, we decided to purchase a Idylis dehumidifier ($250 on sale) to give the drywall one last chance of survival. After one week of continual use and several times of emptying the container full of water, I noticed there was a slight improvement. The odor was not gone but better. I continued to run the dehumidifier every day and I watched the number of dryness get lower and become relatively steady. During that time the foul musty odor subsided quite a bit but was still slightly noticeable. My hope of success was up and down over the one week period of time. One night I set the dehumidifier inside the powder room and closed the door. When I opened the door the next morning, the number read “30”, the lowest number. The walls were actually warm to touch! I continued to run the dehumidifier with the door open and after several days of running and low humidity outside, the smell was diminished to the point I was tempted to paint again but I still waited another few days. I decided to paint the hallway two days ago with paint that I had from a couple years ago because I knew it was good. It is holding its own for right now and I am hopeful it is gone. I guess my only deduction is that when I started this painting was during the time one of the most wet springs Indiana has ever had. We live in the country and the fields looked like lakes for weeks on end. I am going to assume for today it was weather related. BUT…….I am going to buy ‘new’ paint today from Lowes that carries Sherwin Williams and paint my powder room. I am going to pray that the smell will not come back. If it does, I will post. I can tell you I will paint with great reservation and will be shaking in my boots with the new paint.
Lisa
Sue – you absolutely must do whatever you have to do to protect your health. We’re doing what we can for others and ourselves by posting our stories here.
Anyone can make a complaint to the U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission as well. I did so and received and e-mail asking me to make a report, which I will do tomorrow.
I’m also willing to talk to the media, but in a limited way only. I did a reverse look-up on that phone# but got no info. I asked the poster for more info but I don’t think the poster has made a return visit yet.
I’ve also given this site to a law firm I thought might be interested but I’ve heard nothing back. I’m afraid our cases are too varied – and we don’t know what the specific cause is (bacteria? industrial product?)
Someone who can prosecute needs to be involved. Here’s the Class Action that happened a little while ago:
http://www.durabilityanddesign.com/news/?fuseaction=view&id=5507
Please protect your health and try to recover. People can e-mail me at the address I’ve given above. If anything changes I’ll let them know. But for now I have no encouraging news and, frankly, this is difficult for me to do much about at this point. I’m still trying to actually solve the problem. I’m still dealing with this in my house and trying to “live around it” – as I am fortunate that this is just one affected room.
Please be well and let me know if you think I can do anything else to help.
John
Hey KDP, your case sounds like bacteria. The lower the water level in your air, the lower the odors. That makes sense if the bacteria need humidity. What doesn’t make easy sense is where these various odor problems aren’t happening for 99.9 % of the people. Maybe it is frozen paint that becomes food for bacteria.
My first reaction with a bacterial problem such as this would be the use a varathane. But no one has called for that. Intsead, they’;ve suggested shellac. I wonder why. If BIN won’t work without first killing the bacteria, why not spray on bleach instead? It’s cheap. With either bleach or Lysol, a gas mask should be used, with fans running, as well as goggles of course, and I don’t think full strengh is needed. Don’t spray from a finger-depressing spray bottle, but get a paint sprayer with small, electric air compressor (not expensive). I’m pretty sure that bleach will ruin the paint; I don’t know what Lysol does to it when soaked in. But for all I know, these paint-eating bacteria, if that’s what the problem for some of us is, can survive bleach. Let’s assume not. Will the bleach smell after it’s dried and covered?
Theoretically, covering bacteria with latex paint should kill it due to lack of oxygen, but, in reality, rolling a wall with paint leaves tiny holes, or tiny spots with very thin paint. The reason that RIC said NOT to roll or brush is that the bacteria will be spread around, some of it ending up on or near the top layer rather than buried. Spraying doesn’t require a devise to contact the wall.
I don`t like wallpaper, but there are one-color wallpapers. I could live with that. But it needs to be air-proof. One-color vinyl wallpaper could solve some of the problems on this page. And the wallpaper glue may even help to bury the bacteria. It’ll be some time from now, but I may try wallpaper for my case in one room, on top of a mildly-bleached wall.
Barb
An update:
A couple of weeks ago I wrote to ask if anyone had any ideas about which paint to safely use once the problem had been rectified. At the time, we had just primed with BIN, painted with a new product, and had a lovely two week respite from the ghastly smell of our contaminated low VOC paint. Until today, that is. To my horror – the smell is back, with a vengeance. The original problematic paint (which by the way, was B.M. Aura), has clearly once again contaminated the walls. It’s amazing that it can seep through a shellac based product like BIN, but it can. The reason I know it’s the original paint causing the problem is because we had a new partition wall built within the last month in the same room. This small new wall was primed and painted in exactly the same way as the older offending walls and this small wall is the only one in the entire room that does NOT smell. The only thing different about it is that it never had a coat of Aura. As hard as may be to accept (both intellectually and financially), ripping out the drywall seems to be the only solution.
Linda
Seems no one has managed to get rid of the smell. I know we could not. After washing with vinegar, having 1/2 onions in the room, doing the Bin thing. God it was stressful. Bite the bullet just get rid of the gyprock, Also advising people to open up a power point of light switch and see if there is a god awful smell in there. Our did so the insulation had to go as well. Don’t let the paint company off the hook take them to Fair Trading ” that is what we call the court here in Australia.
Barb
I forgot to mention, in light of many people talking about washing down the walls – we had our walls washed with TSP twice before embarking on painting (twice). Doesn’t work, so don’t bother , though the paint company may suggest it.
Lisa
I have 4-5 coats of BIN – synthetic and shellac – on the affected walls and the smell seems to be gone. There is a very slight and different odor if you sniff the walls within an inch. It’s not the horrendous smell that filled the whole room a year ago in the summer (it’s summer here now again – after all that BIN – 3 coats last fall and 2 coats this summer)
Again, I’m not a chemist or biologist but I think this is bacteria. The expert who came to my home said it was NOT mold or mildew. And I forgot to mention this, but one thing he wanted to try doing was an ozone treatment. You seal off the room and blast it with ozone. This would kill bacteria, but might cause even higher toxicity, and would need to be followed by professional-level air exchange.
Basically, the way I see it the bottom line is: these products are defective and we shouldn’t be shouldering the burden and expense of remediation. We shouldn’t be spending all this money and suffering this vexation just to return our homes to normal. All we wanted to do was paint.
I agree with Linda of course. Ripping out the drywall is the sure and permanent solution. When I get brave enough to put some paint on my walls to see what happens after 4-5 coats of BIN, I’ll let you know whether or not it’s worth risking the BIN route. Something to consider is that there’s great inconvenience either way. If you rip out the drywall, it’s a big messy job and you still have to prime and paint. But repeated separate applications of BIN is also problematic – and I still can’t be sure that when I paint it will be ok.
I’ll definitely let everyone know. I’m so happy the smell is gone that it’s tempting to leave the BIN on the walls. But one wall still shows the last white layer through the thinner chocolate-milk color layer of tinted BIN. And the overall effect of the tinted BIN is pretty ugly. I will probably have the room painted in a couple of weeks or so.
Sue
Ozone is great idea. What type of business can do this to your walls?
James
Hi everyone. I found this site after running a search on paint odor because I painted a newly remodeled room and after a month it still smells, and it even smells as described here, like pickles, almost an organic clay smell! I couldn’t figure it out because the first room I painted, using the exact same brand and even same line of paint, within 2 days all the paint smell was permanently gone. The only conclusion I have come to is the fact on the new room I used paint that was on sale at Sherwin Williams at 30% off and it must have been getting old, and then I stored it for a year and a half before using it. If it was still good to begin with, just slightly old, it would have been nice if on the can there was a warning that too old of paint will ruin your house. argh I wouldn’t have waited to use it. What is so hard about a little warning label? That’s all i would ask on any product. As for the ozone generator, I actually own one. the problem is the gas doesnt penetrate into the paint all the way. And incidentally, I already own a carbon filter too. Now that works, but they are a little loud. BTW, the filters I use are at greners website, phresh brand. They use a high powered fan to push air through the filter. Keep in mind though, that carbon itself actually has somewhat of a smell itself, especially when new. So anyway, last night I decided to sleep in the new room for the first time. And let me say it gave me a sore throat and asma symptoms. I don’t even have asma at all. I always wondered what it was like. Its like there not enough oxygen. Not a good feeling. I started off without the carbon running, because its a bit loud. Man, I couldn’t even sleep at all! Its like my body wouldn’t work right. i even thought it was in my head until my wife, the next morning, said she had the same symptoms. So I brought in the 50lb carbon filter and fan system and had immediate improvement in the ability to sleep, however it still isn’t a silver bullet. You have to remember as its blowing air around, some of the air is bouncing straight off the walls and you breath it before it gets filtered. i think at the end of the day, the best practice is just for there to be a frickin warning on the label of paint mentioning how toxic it can be if its gone bad and how to tell if its gone bad!
Echota
We are in the exact same boat as so many of you, only instead of in a house, it’s in our RV.
I also have MCS, and am extremely sensitive to chemicals. My husband used Killz primer, which oddly was’t the problem, and some sort of low or zero VOC paint from Sherwin-Williams. We are intending to live in our Rv for awhile, so we were making it more like a home. We painted all the cabinets, which span most of the RV, with the aforementioned paints, while the walls have been painted with Annie sloan chalk paint and Yolo Colorhouse.
We are NO having any issue with the latter two, but the white we used for the cabinets, which again are about 70% of the Rv, is killing me. It is ESPECIALLY bad in the heat, but is offgassing constantly. One thing we’ve done is we have a little $99 ozone machine we bought on Amazon. It has a 120 minute timer. If we do two cycles a day of the ozone machine, then air it out, the smell dissipates for that day, but only for that day. If we stop running the ozone machine daily, the smell comes back with a vengence. I like to have the windows open when possible, but when we have to close the windows and run the A/C, it means I get a migraine from the chemicals.
I was both relieved and appalled to find this thread – relieved because I am not alone, but appalled at just how many people’s health this is damaging – I, too, have EBV, MCS, Mast Cell Activation Disorder and so many other issues, and this has been causing flares of many of my symptoms, including migraines, and affecting my health. Since the Rv is parked in our driveway currently we were able to move back out and into our house again for now, but the whole point of the RV is to try and find a better climate for my health, since I have SO many sensitivities, including mold (and we are in the Pacific Northwest).
I am glad to read that people were able to get some of these companies to pay for repainting – I am hoping that we will be able to get Sherwin-Williams or whichever company made the paint we used to reimburse us for the paint, have a rep come out and test paint and air quality, and also pay for stripping and repainting these cabinets. Because this is ridiculous. I plan on using this thread as proof that we are not the only ones, should they balk at repayment…
To answer someone’s question about ozone, you can either purchase a machine yourself on Amazon – just be sure that you follow all the directions when using it, and never use it with people or pets in the home. Or plants, probably. And air out any room it’s used in completely before entering again. It can dry out your sinuses and lungs, so be super careful.
There are companies who do this, but the only one I know the name of is one I worked for when I lived in St. Louis – Steamatic of St. Louis. They have the REALLY big ozone fans that are serious business. If you maybe look for companies that say “Environmental Services”, that might lead you there. They also do flood and fire restoration, if that helps the search.
I really appreciate this information everyone has shared – I read the ENTIRE thread – and while I am really disheartened that there hasn’t ever been a fix that has worked other than “replace it”, I AM glad that everyone has been sharing here. This has been really helpful for me to get ideas on what we can do and what won’t work, before we sink even MORE money into it.
Oh, and for safe paints that are actually safe for real? Not at all cheap, but Annie Sloan chalk paints are the bomb. I really really wish I had just gone with my gut and used those everywhere like I originally wanted to. Like I said, I am extremely chemically sensitive and I was able to paint with Annie Sloan without a mask even, which for me is amazing. I also liked the Yolo Colorhouse, but I see that many people had issues with it above, so I won’t recommend it then. But AS, YES. IT’s $40 a quart, though, and you generally have to use a wax afterward to seal it (we didn’t use the wax on our walls). But eco-friendly paint just isn’t cheap.
We’ve also had really good luck using milk paint with a beeswax sealer but you can’t really touch that up if anything happens to it.
If we are able to repaint these cabinets somehow, I will spring for the Annie Sloan – in the long run it would have actually saved us money, since this whole debacle is just costing us more and more to try and fix. A really expensive lesson to learn.
Linda
Good idea to show the paint company the posts. I wonder what they will do probably try to close down the site.
I wanted to bring it to the attention of a rival paint company to the one used. Too stressful. I am one of those who just got rid of the gyprock and insulation. Sorry to hear it is in your R.V.
When I am finally over all the stress I will try and bring this problem to a regulatory body here in Australia
Only problem is we have the worst Government in the history of Australia at the moment with a mad man at the helm.
Sue
Dear Echota:
Thank you for sharing the name of a paint that you were less sensitive to, namely, the Annie Sloan line. I wrote the manufacturer and this is what they wrote:
” Chalk Paint® is a non-toxic, water-based paint that is lead-free, EG-free, odour-free and has very low VOCs. Further to this, representative samples of Chalk Paint® decorative paint by Annie Sloan have been independently certified as ‘toy safe’ according to strict European standards. The paint was evaluated by one of Europe’s leading testing houses who have confirmed full compliance with BS EN 71-3:2013.
We have 2 members of staff with asthma who work in our shop and warehouse, both of whom regularly use the paint in workshops etc. with no ill effects. ”
I am definitely going to give this a try in the future.
S
Echota
You’re very welcome. I am chemically sensitive and have had no issues painting inside, without a mask, with Annie Sloan. Other than the expense, I love it. 🙂
I’ve also had good success with the Yolo Colorhouse paint, but reading above I see not everyone else has. But I was able to use it, again with no mask and no issues, painting inside.
To give our own update, my husband contacted Sherwin-Williams about the situation, and is going to take the cans into the manager tomorrow. They said if we’re close enough, and I think we are, he will even come out then and check out the RV, and they will test the paint. I’ll keep updating with our progress as well. I am so hoping to be repaid for this and for them to make this right.
John
I was at Home Depot speaking with the paint employee about my house odor. I’ll just tell you what she said. She said my latex primer couldn’t have become frozen or it would become a large ball in the bucket. I’ve never encountered anything like that with any paint, and I’m sure I’ve had some frozen latex over the past 40-odd years. She said latex that has frozen in the shipping process to Home Depot would never make it into the customers’ hands. If she is correct on both counts, then freezing may not be the cause for anyone’s odor on this page.
She also said that the all paint smelling bad is thrown out, and that one time she even saw growth on the top of a bucket / can. We can’t assume that it was mold, but there we have it, something(s) do grow in paint. But there is a big difference between something growing in wet versus dry paint. There can’t be too many organisms capable of growing with only the water in the air. I’ve got a couple of phone numbers to chemical / odor people that I intend on getting to soon.
Just want to say that 4 or 5 coats of BIN, to the present time, is not yet a sure fix because this “beast” takes time to come back to the surface, or at least to come back in a big way. It’s perplexing that the one who rubbed bleach on the wall had the smell returning. It could be due to the rubbing process. Rubbing means that a few survive, if in fact bacteria is the problem at all, and then they multiple and return. Plus, if they are deep in the paint, it needs to be soaked with bleach or something else. If Bin is rolled on, that too can allow some to survive, because they cover the roller and get to the upper surface as you roll. It’s like turning over dirt with weeds; you get most of them buried deep and killed, but others near the surface come back and spread more seeds.
I can’t say that my odor is like pickles. I love pickle juice so I know what it smells like. Mine is a thick on-the-foul side, but I have nothing else to compare it to. It seems to make breathing harder, but I get no headaches, just a lousy feeling. That feeling has been gone all summer, and I feel much better than in winter. I’ll keep posting if there’s anythying to add. John
.
Linda
Great that you keep posting. Why not bring this to the media. How about contacting someone on THE DOCTORS
programme. We get that show here in Australia to and sometime they voice this type of concern. I was thinking of contacting Dulux paint they are very reputable. I was going to head the letter up something like want to wipe out your competitors and go from there.
Sue
I think you are absolutely right. The media is the place to bring this to the attention of others. Thank you to letting us know THE DOCTORS program is aired in Australia. What about DR.OZ ?
SM
James
Speaking again of ozone generators, I just shock treated my problem painted room and the 1st night, no smell. But then the next day the smell returned with a vengence and changed smells, from a light smell of pickles to a musky smell. The strength decreased a bit over the next few days though. Why is it when I shock treat (a very high dose of ozone, not the small machines that you can keep on all the time with people near by) when I shock treat the other rooms of the house there’s no such after odor. Its because the problem is the paint won’t cure. Its dry to the touch but not cured, even though I painted 6 weeks ago. I also noticed the paint scratches off easily. And once, I tried to wipe down the walls with a mild bleach-water mixture and the painted started to become wet paint and disolved a bit, turning the bucket of bleach-water a milky white. Argh, this is so agrevating. I worked so hard on that room, even replaced the wall studs and window when I remodelled it. And had it profesionally taped and mudded, though I hung the sheetrock myself. The whole reason I even did all this was to make the room smell like less of an old house and now it smells worse than ever.
Linda
I have been through all the anguish best just to bite the bullet and get rid of the dry wall that smell has permanently it and will never go.
Matt
My wife has MCS. We recently bought a house and we need to paint. I want to get in and get all the walls painted before we move so it has at least a month to ventilate before we move in. I have been researching this issue quite a bit. Has anybody used a product called ECOS? They claim to be zero-VOC. I have read in numerous other sources that this paint is recommended for people who have multiple chemical sensitivities. My only concern is that it sounds a little too good to be true. Be interested to know if anyone has experience with this brand of paint.
So sorry to hear all these stories of suffering. I have seen it first hand and know how debilitating it can be.
Sue
Don’t do it !!!! I believed the Zero-VOC rhetoric and got into trouble. Don’t believe a thing. Instead, I suggest you paint some Annie Sloan paint on a sample of drywall. Then prop this up in a room of the house for a few months. See how she reacts first before you consider painting rooms.
SM
Echota
Matt, I can’t speak about ECOS, because I haven’t used it, but I also have MCS and I have found Annie Sloan and Yolo Colorhouse to be safe. If the paint can be bought at a regular paint store, it’s greenwashed, don’t use it. If you have to go to a special green building supply store or a specialty botique to get it, it’s much more likely to be safe.
Lisa
Well, I promised I would be back to report. And this is my judgement at this point in time:
If you’ve just discovered that the paint you put on the walls developed a smell that doesn’t go away – involve the company immediately and DON’T BACK DOWN until your problem is truly solved. I highly suspect that many of you, if not most or even all, will be required to rip out the drywall before completely solving the problem – as Linda has said more than once.
Unfortunately for many here, like myself, we didn’t discover that this problem was not unheard of, was actually due to some problem with the low or zero VOC paint, and that it can’t be easily or cheaply solved. Instead, we found ourselves in the thick of it before we got online to try to find out if there was some way to fix the stink.
If you read through all these comments, you’ll see that there’s more than one brand involved. For me it was Olympic ICON zero VOC – custom tinted at Lowe’s. Applied in October of 2013. Developed a smell within a few days. We continued to ventilate the room. The winter quelled the smell enough that we thought we were out of the woods, but in late spring of 2014, when the weather got warm, the smell returned in full force and got worse. We tried dry heat in the room, which made it smell more. We ventilated as much as possible, and we notified PPG, the manufacturer, at Lowe’s direction. PPG said that without batch numbers (the cans were gone) they couldn’t help us, and said they’d had no reports of any such problem (obviously not true – since the very same problem has been reported here as having been reported to that manufacturer). They refunded my money, but didn’t want to do anything more. I insisted that a rep visit my house. He pretty much just shrugged his shoulders and said we could try primer.
THAT was the moment I should have dug my heels in, insisted that they take a sample to an independent lab and figure out what was wrong. I shouldn’t have taken another step or spent another dollar without their involvement, since it was their product that caused this smell. I have ignorance to blame. I’ve done plenty of interior, and exterior painting in my life. I’ve never, never, never had a problem like this. In my mind there was no reason to suspect that it was possible to buy paint from Lowe’s and get a bad product.
We tried wiping the walls in spot areas – with bleach, alcohol, recommended wall cleaners – to no avail. We had several painters come in to assess the situation. Each recommendation boiled down to primer and topcoat. We had a gentleman from SERVPRO, a company that does remediation after fire, flood, smokers, accidents, etc. give us an estimate. His included ozone treatment (a dangerous procedure which presents its own risks) along with cleaning, and finally primer and paint. That was a $1700 estimate.
We finally decided to proceed with primer and paint, and we had two coats of synthetic BIN applied in the earlly fall of last year (2014, one year after paintng). Three weeks later, we had one coat of BIN shellac applied, because the first two coats of BIN didn’t seem to do the trick. The walls did improve with these applications of BIN. They were now smooth and dry to the touch, as opposed to a not-wet but not-dry sort of rubbery surface of the bad paint – a surface that you could rub or even peel the paint off. We left the three coats of white BIN primer on the walls through the winter, when, again, the cold temperatures seemed to subdue the smell.
In the spring, happiness reigned, temporarily. I sent a request for reimbursement for the three coats of BIN along with labor to apply the final topcoat. The company said it wouldn’t pay for labor for the topcoat, and while we were going back and forth on that – the smell returned (the warmth came late this year). I tried to get a rep from PPG to come back to see what was going on, but the company isn’t interested in doing that.
Because the BIN had helped so much last fall, we decided to apply more. Around July 20, my painter applied tinted BIN to cover all the white BIN. He was able to apply 2 coats to three of the walls and 1 to the forth with one gallon of BIN. This seemed to resolve things, but there remained a smell from the BIN itself – sort of a clay or musty smell, slightly resembling the original smell. However, the smell never got as bad as the original paint, and I mistakenly assumed it was simply the BIN itself, and that perhaps BIN had its own smell that needed to be covered, since it’s a primer. This is another place that I think I made a mistake. If 3 coats of BIN didn’t solve the problem, then no amount of primer is going to solve it. BIN is amazing stuff, but it’s apparently no match for the evil spirit that finds a home in some zero VOC paint. Why didn’t the paint company tell me: “hey, don’t put any more BIN on the wall…it’s not going to help any more than it already has”?
Fully one month later, the topcoat was applied. We used Benjamin Moore Aura. It covered very well and looks beautiful. It’s dry to the touch, HOWEVER – the walls smell like a combination of paint and BIN. It’s been almost 2 weeks since the paint was applied, and I’ve been ventilating the room EVERY DAY. The weather has been perfect as far as temperature. The walls are smooth and dry – but the walls still smell. This isn’t the overpowering smell as from the bad paint – a smell like BO, or even just paint that hadn’t dried (after a year) – this is the smell of BIN and paint mixed together. When the fan is exhausting air from the room, you can’t smell it. That is, the strong smell of the drying paint itself is completely gone. But, if you put your nose near the wall, you can smell it. It’s a sickly sort of sweet clay smell. And when we shut the window and door at night (so the smell doesn’t get in the rest of the house) when we open the room in the morning, the smell is in the air in the room.
So – take Linda’s advice. Rip out the drywall and be done with it.
It’s been almost two years and the problem’s not gone. And we’ve spent over $700 so far. And it looks like we’re going to have to rip out the drywall anyway. I can’t recommend ozone because it’s expensive and risky and there’s no guarantee it will work (unless you can find someone who will guarantee it). I don’t think bleaching will be a bad thing, but again, dangerous to do and it might not work. The only thing you know will work is getting rid of the drywall that the paint is on.
And yes, we checked the carpet, ceiling, attic, etc. It was evident to everyone who examined the room that the smell was coming off the wall paint. If I could do this all over – I would have gotten onto the manufacturer immediately and never let up until I knew what had caused the problem – chemically – and that they were going to fix it. I shouldn’t be forced to spend hundreds or even thousands of dollars to fix a problem caused by their product. I guess it’s time to get some estimates for drywall, and to perhaps contact a lawyer.
At this point, I think it’s important for me to thank the creator / owner / maintainer of this web site. THANK YOU!
If people are experiencing medical issues as a result of using a product, they should definitely contact a personal injury lawyer (after their doctor of course). Also, report the product at:
http://www.saferproducts.gov/
REgarding class actions suits: currently they exist only over the issue of paints that claim to be zero VOC actually NOT being zero VOC. Concurrent health issues would also be a part of that I believe. I’m not going to recommend anybody, but I think you could probably find a national law group online that might want to talk to you if that’s your issue. For myself, I just need to restore my home to a live-able condition at this time. It’s been almost two years, and I have no idea how much longer.
Thank you all for your comments. Again, my vote is for ripping out the drywall, and also for involving the manufacturer ASAP and throughout the process of remediation.
Lisa
PS – although I’ve said that I just need to restore my home to a live-able condition, when doing some self-reflection, I realize I’ve been having frequent headaches. Sometimes they’re bad enough that I become sick to my stomach. I’ve tried to stay out of the room but I’m starting to think that this latest manifestation is having a negative impact on my health. Because none of us know what’s causing these odors, I think it’s important to try to limit your exposure as much as possible. I’m thinking I should probably talk to a doctor at this point? Certainly I have enough to contend with without being sick on top of that. I’m very sorry for those who are having even more serious issues from this bad paint. Let us know how you’re doing.
Lisa
Since I wrote the long saga just a day ago, the smell has continued to worsen and it’s every bit as bad now as it was before the multiple coats of BIN primer and the two coats of fresh latex. Perhaps worse. I was able to be in the room before even though it smelled bad. Now I can’t stay in there for even a minute.
Clarke
I’ve been following this thread for months as I have suffered an odor nightmare as well. A similar thread and possibly helpful thread here:
http://www.diydoctor.org.uk/forums/this-paint-stinks-t843.html
Good luck to all
Lisa
It’s been a month since the room was painted with the good paint. The smell in the room has stabilized into something that’s most closely characterized as a chemical / paint smell. We’ve scheduled the removal of the drywall. It took one-two weeks for the smell from the latest attempt, which was the topcoat, to become what it is now – which hasn’t changed regardless of the fact that the weather has been perfect for ventilating the room, which we’ve done every single day. The smell remains the same. It’s as strong now as ever and I have some fear that when we remove the drywall we’ll find that it’s affected the insulation or more. I wish we could have gotten someone in here sooner to rip it out. It’s going to be another few weeks.
Sue
H Lisa:
Thank you for the update. I am so sorry about this. I know how disappointing this is that you will have to knock out the drywall. Please let us know the results. I am certain that this will significantly reduce any fumes and I expect that with time and ventilation any residual odors will leave.
keith nyc
I’ve been following this thread for sometime as I have had issues for a year. I’ve done research and read tons of blogs, articles, threads on painting/DIY websites. I believe I have a solution but I am waiting a couple of weeks before I can say it’s been a success but first I will share what I have gathered.
Most of the odor problems are from recent industry changes in paint formulations from regulators demanding lower VOC. Also paint is not what it used to be. Paint used to be just paint. Now its primer and paint in one, scrubable paint that may never completely “dry”. Also paints that may have no odor if applied to a clean surface, may react with whatever is on our walls now and have a bad chemical reaction.That is something we can’t change.
These are things in our control: Application!!! Use new rollers and brushes!!!! Many users applying second coats too soon. Most water based paint requires a minimum of 4 hours in ideal conditions for recoat. Give it a minimum of a day to recoat. I was able to recreate the gas odor by applying known good paint on a small piece of cutout drywall and applying a 2nd coat 2 hours later when it was dry to the touch but not ready for a recoat. Many inexperienced DIYers and rushed painters will recoat after 2 hours because it’s dry to the touch. I’ll admit I was guilty of this. Most latex paints (after reading TDS of several different paint brands) in IDEAL CONDITIONS are dry to touch in 2 hours, can be recoated after 4 hours, and fully cured in 2 weeks.
warm temperature and low humidity is considered ideal conditions.
WHAT WON’T WORK: Applying another layer of paint of different brand over your stinky paint. All latex paints are breathable and gas emitting from the contaminated paint on your walls will permeate right through it. Are paints are breathable with higher sheen paints being slightly less. Gloss finish will be less permeable than flats but all are breathable. The higher the volume of solids in a paint, the less breathable. Info of volume solid of any type of paint is listed in the products TDS (technical data sheet) which is available on paint manufacturer’s websites.
Zinsser BIN-like others on this site, this didn’t work for me. Not only is it expensive, smelly, messy and extremely hard to apply. I did 2 layers over a 2 day period. It smelled very powerful on application and less so as it cured but after a week or so, I was left with a combo primer and gas odor which never faded.
WHAT MIGHT WORK: A UK based DIY website has a thread where many users reported the odor issue with some success of applying Alkali resistant primer. The odors were caused by mostly Crown brand paint and some by Delux brand. I am from the USA and never heard of these brands until reading the thread. In trying to treat my issue, I researched “Alkali resistant primer” only to find it was not something widely available here but similar products that are suppose to have a high ph resistance of up to 13. I only found 2 products with that claim and it was Masonry sealers (which I didn’t want to use inside my home) and Zinsser brand 123 primer. I tried this on a small area in my home and have had big improvement. On its TDS, it lists ph resistance of up to 12.5. None of the other primer products on Zinsser’s website lists ph resistance. I applied 2 layers. Recoat time is 1 hour but I gave each layer a day then applied 2 layers of latex paint on the following days. Before applying these on wall, I applied these on a piece of cutout drywall to confirm the primer and paint were not contaminated and did not smell. I let it sit for 2 weeks before applying to walls.I will report back here in a couple of weeks if it doesn’t smell on my walls as the paint takes 2 weeks to “cure” but so far so good.
Good luck to all!
Lisa
keith in nyc
Thanks very much for posting. I very much hope that you’ve found a solution for your problem. It’s hard to tell if we’re all having the exact same problem, but if you’ve had a smell for a year after painting, it sure sounds the same!
Did you report your problem to the paint manufacturer? What did they say? Are you experimenting on your own dime? I have done plenty of painting in my lifetime. If there are paints being manufactured that require special preparation of the wall to be painted, then that should be noted on the label very plainly. Also, I’ve always used new rollers, etc. when painting, and have always left plenty of time to dry between coats. I suspect that there was something wrong with my paint before it went on the wall, but somehow spreading it on the wall allowed whatever was wrong with it to manifest.
Here’s the problem with trying to solve the problem: we’re all guessing and experimenting and spending lots of money, time, and trouble to fix it – when we shouldn’t have to. We should be able to buy paint, apply it according to the directions using recommended materials, and have the room done and live-able. If you’ve found a solution to this problem that doesn’t involve removing the drywall, then the manufacturer will be in your debt.
Please do let everyone know what you find out from your reading and experiment – again, I sincerely hope that you’ve found the answer, for the sake of everyone concerned. Thanks!
keith nyc
@Lisa, I did report my problem to the store where the paint was purchased and they contacted a rep from the manufacturer. They called me within a day and quickly offered a gallon of BIN and a gallon of the same paint I had originally purchased. As mentioned, BIN didn’t work out for me and I have been spending my own money ever since. I couldn’t pursue anything really because I threw out the original can of bad paint and only had a receipt to show my purchase.
What upsets me about the paint industry’s response is that they either claim there are absolutely no health risks. HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE IF THEY CAN’T FIGURE OUT DEFECTS IN THEIR OWN PRODUCTS THAT THEY CAN SUDDENLY BECOME DOCTORS AND KNOW THAT???? It has affected my health and many of those that have posted on here. If not long term, then at least short term. I’ve suffered from headaches, shortness of breath, and many other issues that I never had before prior to this. Only thing that helps is leaving the house for long periods of time.
I will post back shortly to give an update.
Sue
Hi ! I just want to make certain that I have this straight. Is it Lisa that continues to have health issues ? Or is it Keith?
Because of my health issues post Zero VOC paint (Edward Dunn, but it makes no difference what the brand is. Poison, is poison). I am seriously considering moving out of my home of 30 years. I am distraught over this whole thing, as I do not want to move.
Lisa
Keith, thanks for that further explanation. I will be eager to hear what you find.
Sue, Keith has ongoing problems from the paint. I am having my drywall replaced in a couple of weeks, after trying multiple coats of BIN (didn’t work) I would suggest you do what you have to do to protect your health. If that means moving out, then do it. If it means replacing the drywall, then do that. Maybe you’ll have to figure out which is more economically feasible for you. If you believe that you bought a ZERO VOC paint that turned out to NOT be zero VOC – then I’d say you need to contact one of the law firms that is bringing class-action suits against paint companies that have advertised their paints as being zero VOC when in fact they’re not – especially if it’s causing you health problems. Try searching under “zero VOC paint class action suits” – this one comes up. for example:
http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overview/volatile-organic-compounds-voc-free-organic-interior-paint-class-action-lawsuits
At this point for me I simply need to get the drywall replaced (I hope) – as I was fortunate that only one room was affected. I’ve been staying out of there except to go in every day (while holding my breath) and open the window and put a fan blowing out, to pull fresh air from the front of the house through that room. I feel sorry for nature out there that has to deal with whatever gases are making this stink. God bless nature as the big detoxifier. I hope we don’t wear it out.
Lisa
Please – if anybody visits or revisits: give us as much info as you can. What brand and kind of paint? Did you contact the company?
Don’t do anything to try to fix it without involving the company, because they’ll deny that their paint was the problem. Have a third party examine the room to witness and give their assessment – because you’ll probably have to sue the company if you end up spending a lot of money (like to replace drywall). Don’t be naive. It’s obvious from this page that these companies have had plenty of complaints about this smell problem – and yet they deny it.
If the company sends a rep and the rep tells you to try a primer – don’t do it! Once you cover up the paint they’ll say they can’t test it! Tell them you want a test from an independent lab. Cut out some drywall (you’ll have to do that anyway) and check it out for yourself! But either way – don’t let the company off the hook. They will use every trick in the book to avoid taking responsibility for this problem.
Especially: if you painted room(s) in your house that you can’t avoid being in and you’re suffering nausea, migraines, or worse – go to a doctor and then call a personal injury lawyer. It’s too late for me…protect yourself!
Steven Roe
Just painted with Olympic Paint from Lowes 5 days ago and it smell horrible.
Its my sons new bedroom and he can use it. After building a room in the garage and spent alot of money that my son made and it smells like it was just painted and its dry. I don’t knkw what to do.
Sue
Is it regular paint or Zero VOC?
Keith NYC
Lisa, have you had your drywall removed yet? My previous attempt of 2 layers of 123 primer and 2 layers of latex eggshell improved the odor a lot but wasn’t a fix. Whenever the temperature rose above 75 degrees Fahrenheit, the gassy odor returned. There is virtually no odor on cooler days even if I put my nose directly on the wall.
So now I have tried a couple of different things. I had some semi gloss paint which I applied in a small area and that seems to not have an odor. I don’t want semi gloss in my bedroom but at this point I’ll settle for it if it covers the odor. I can’t find an explanation as to why semi gloss wouldn’t smell other than it is a more durable paint and is thicker in viscosity than the eggshells and flats I previously used. For those that have painted in all different sheens know that when you have say big drips of semi gloss on the floor that you can peel it off in one piece when it dries as opposed to flat paints that need to be cleaned with water and it breaks up.
Semi glass has a lower perm rating and some even use semi gloss as a vapor barrier. Before covering my entire bedroom in semi gloss, I’ll let this small patch cure for a full 30 days and then go from there. Lisa, it may be worth trying some semi gloss if you haven’t torn down the walls yet.
Lisa
Keith in NYC, — the smell problem is definitely related to temperature. In the winter, here in the midwest, the room had little smell – even the first winter when the bad paint was still on the wall and not covered with primer. Likewise, the next winter when there was 2-3 coats of BIN on the walls, we really thought we’d conquered it. But in summer the smell was horrible when just the paint was on the walls, and when the BIN was over it, there was still a smell. After 4 coats of primer, I decided to try the paint.
I talked to a lot of paint people (again) at that time. I was considering an oil-based paint. I was thinking that maybe an oil-based might be less permeable. The paint company I was talking to said that the only oil-based they still sell is high-gloss that’s used on door casings and the like. i didn’t like the idea of high-gloss in my bedroom, although if I’d were still at the point where I was physically and financially able to keep experimenting – perhaps I would do it. The drywall is gone as of an hour ago 🙂
One thing to remember for those that haven’t already tried covering their bad paint before contacting the manufacturer is: there’s a 2 year statute of limitations on trying to collect from the company in small claims court. Of course, if a person has used the stinky paint in more than one room, they will likely go over the $ recoverable in small claims.
So Keith – I did think about the different paints – and also primers. I considered an oil-based primer. But everything I read online said that BIN shellac was the best at dealing with odors. After the final two latex coats over the layers of primer – the room smelled as bad as it did with just the paint – and was still that way now – almost 2 months later and always as bad as the first. So we took out the drywall. And the drywall is fine – as we suspected it would be, since there was never anything wrong with it to begin with. The layers of primer and paint on there are just like the thinnest skin compared to the thickness of the drywall, and yet that’s where this mysterious problem hides. We kept some of the drywall with the paint on it as evidence, since we’ll be trying to collect in small claims. We felt we couldn’t wait any longer to get this fixed – winter will be here before you know it. We’re so tired of moving things in and out of the room everytime we have work done. And I’m tired of sleeping in the basement. After two years, we need our house back, and we can’t afford the time or money to experiment any more.
Again, I hope very deeply that you find a solution. It’s possible that some people have, If you read all these comments carefully, you’ll see that some people may have primed and actually fixed it. Not everyone comes back, so you have to think they fixed it (or maybe got tired of talking about it 🙂
Anita
We are sick at my house from the toxic BEHR paint fumes we have not been able to get rid of for 11 months. I called Poison Control. They said they had never heard of the problem or gotten any other complaints. Might help to call Poison Control if you have been feeling sick from these fumes that none of us seems to be able to get rid of.
Linda
I didn’t think to call them here in Australia as I thought they only dealt with emergency incidents. What did they do for you did they register your complaint did they try to help in any way.
Lisa
Anita – try calling the State Health Department in your state. I was on the verge of doing this. Don’t know why I didn’t think about it before.
Lisa
In fact, I probably should do this anyway. If there’s any chance of getting this on the radar for the media and the public, it will probably be due to health concerns. We kept some of the drywall, so they can check it out. Good luck!
Lisa
Keith in NYC – I just ran across the tips on alkali resistant primer on a Crown site:
http://www.askcrown.co.uk/faq/wall-odour-phenomenon-3/
But it sounds like you tried their “Solution” and it didn’t completely work (maybe you really do need the 13? How could .5 make that much difference?). Our new drywall is up and primed. The room smells like dead fish. I discovered a 5 gallon bin of dirty water from mudding that they’d left to sit for a week. Almost knocked me over. So now we’re postponing the topcoat until everything that’s on the drywall now has a chance to cure and off-gas.
This problem that a growing number of people are dealing with is serious and expensive. It’s not right that the nature of it is allowing the manufacturers to claim they’re not responsible. It’s their products that are causing the problem, but all they have to say is: “We can’t help you if you dont’ have the batch numbers!” But in reality this has nothing to do with batches (as talked about on that page), and product liability has nothing to do with batches or warranty. If you make a bad product, you should make it right if it hurts someone or costs them money.
Keith – you shouldn’t be expected to keep your paint cans. What brand and kind of paint did you use? Keep your receipt. Don’t let them off the hook. They encouraged you to use BIN – and now the bad paint is covered so they can say they can’t sample it. I was told I’d need a “wet sample” – well, first of all, I didn’t know the paint was going to start smelling a few days after I painted, and second, people don’t keep paint cans if they’re empty, and third – the rep was IN THE ROOM and could have gouged some off the wall, since it remained rubbery. This is baloney. It’s apparent that this problem cropped up a while ago and that the manufacturers are aware of it. If it’s truly only one in 100,000 that are experiencing it, then it shouldn’t be a big deal to help those of us who are the unlucky one in 100,000. If it were my product, I would want to be responsible – even if it meant that I lost money. I wouldn’t want to carry the guilt for the headaches and disruption of making someone’s home stink for months or even years.
Benjamin
My advice where you get that paint go to that shop you have buy tell the tiller you have bad smelling in your house he must come or make a plan to remove it
Tim
I have this same problem. We painted 4 bedrooms at the same time with exactly the same paint except for the color. The room painted red has this odor while the other three do not. We went so far as to repriming the walls with a high quality oil based primer and repainted the walls, again red. The odor is still there!! It’s not a fresh paint smell but something I cantvreally identify. The house is pony 10 years old and the smell was not there before the red paint. Very frustrated. Any suggestions?
Keith NYC
@Tim, what brand and sheen did you use? My original problem started with Benjamin moore flat with a customized dark grey color.
John
I was just reading the posts at the UK website left by someone above. It’s hard to make sense of it when one person claims the problem occurs / worsens in sunlight, and another reports the problem occurs only when the windows are open regardless of sun on a wall.
I shared on an odor problem in virtually all my house but the bedroom, and after some five years, the odor persists. I had planned on flooring the place (for the first time) in hopes that the odor was coming up from the solid-rock crawl space, which is often humid as rain water seeps through rock crevices, but even when the rock is dry, the strong odor on the first floor is there. I purchased some floating wood flooring for the entire story, but after starting in the bedroom, I found that it made noise when walking on it. After a month or two of contemplation, back the flooring went to Home Depot for a refund. The last batch went back about a week ago, meaning that I haven’t been able to test whether the odors are from inside the floor, which is packed with pink insulation. However, the furnace was just installed in the crawl space, which required the removal of some insulation in the floors, and, aside from where mice had made bedding, it didn’t smell. Nor had humidity gotten into it from condensation. It was all fine. I had painted the particle board sub-floors thinking that to be the problem, but the odor persisted. When I finally tried to accept what I had rejected previously, that the walls were the problem, I arrived to this page, which had me pretty sure that the Home Depot Behr primer was the problem, even with two coats of Behr paint overtop. The bedroom was painted several months ago with a new bucket of primer and paint, and doesn’t have the problem. I know that because, every morning when I awake, I open the bedroom door, and, sure enough, the rest of the place stinks. If I spend all day there, I can’t smell it, but if I go to town for a few hours, it’s strong in my nose when I return. I can’t describe it because I don’t know what else it smells like. It’s nothing that I own. Anyway, until the floors are done, I can’t deal with the walls. So long as I can sleep in fresh air, I’ll be alright. The rest of the place needs to be freshened up with open doors as cold weather sets in.
I still have no solid idea on the causes or odor sources in regards to the posts on this page because the problems are not identical across the board. There are several situations where foul odor occurs on a long-term basis, some with defective paint finish, and others not. The one who had the problem with the same paint only with the red color suggests a dye problem. Might there be a dye problem for all cases? Might the culprit in a lot of cases be a certain dye brand / color and not the paint itself? Can that explain problems with white primer? Or are primers the problem? Perhaps that red room got a different can of primer.
Before tearing out the drywall, see if a layer of paper peels off easily under the paint. Sometimes, only part of the paper peels, leaving enough that one can lay on a thin coat of drywall mud to smooth out a finish appropriate for painting. It may be a better option because the wood trim doesn’t need to come off. But whether this is even an option depends on what difficulty there is in pealing a layer off. With the paint on, peeling the paper may be impossible. Sorry (or should we be glad) to hear that the drywall came off, Lisa. You have a 99,999 out of 100,000 chance of getting good paint this time. Don’t even think the word, Murphy.
Big John
Has anyone tried BaKing the rooms a little? Paint cures best above a certain temperature. I just ran into a similar problem with some primer. it’s cold outside this time of year and leaving windows open with fans running drops the rooms temperature below the optimal temperature of the paint. Try blasting some heat in the room with fans running to try and dry the paint out. It seemed to make a difference for myself.
Lisa
Big John – I baked the room, and after the room got very warm and the walls were warm to the touch, I ventilated. Then I did it all over again. If that helped your situation, then your situation wasn’t the same as mine. In my situation, heat made the room even worse.
Lisa
John, I did note that the UK site said something about sunlight causing the problem. I tried to find out how old that site was, but could not. My problem was not caused by sun on the wall. There was absolutely no doubt it was the paint itself. Every square inch of the surface of the walls smelled and nothing else – not the ceiling, the rug, the walls on the other side, the attic, the basement, etc etc etc.
I’m sorry it’s affecting so much of your house, but glad it’s left you one “clean” room. I was fortunate that the situation was reversed. But it was my bedroom, so I had to sleep in the basement, and cram all my clothes and stuff into an extra tiny room (thank goodness we had that) The dressers got moved in and out of the livingroom every time we primed. I can’t believe we tried so hard for so long. I don’t know whether to be proud or ashamed. Good luck to you my friend.
Lisa
John, I hope I didn’t imply anything insulting in my comment. You are facing a lot, and I admire you very much for dealing with it as you are. Best wishes. I’ll be back of course.
Have other commenters who posted here so long ago solved their problem without replacing drywall? Or did they do that and then move on? It would be great to know.